Three car teams & talents outside F1

[Penfold]

Right. Rumours say Ferrari and Red Bull will race a third car in 2015. There is no confirmation since there are lots of rules to deal with. Will they score points? If yes, unfair in terms of constructors. If no, why spend extra money on the car? Livery, sponsorship, logistics?

There is a lot of work to be taken care of. One way would be to let the third car be earmarked as a non-constructors points car but still let it score driver's points. The increased sponsorship alongside more money from Bernie would make it worth the investment for the two teams.

Who would drive it, then?
Well, at Red Bull the logical option is to let another teenager in. Carlos Sainz Jr. I would still let Vergne stay in Toro Rosso to mentor Verstappen for a season.

Ferrari, then. Davide Rigon perhaps. Esteban Ocon has tested a Ferrari but belongs to Lotus. Jolyon Palmer is looking for F1 options and is the reigning GP2 champion. They clearly wanted Bianchi for a third seat but... yeah.

This topic can be a space for us to name all the talents outside Formula 1. The next superhero. Who do we have in various junior formulae?

Right, GP2 guys who seem to be capable of F1 decency:

Jolyon Palmer, UK
Stoffel Vandoorne, Belgium
Mitch Evans, UK
Marco Sørensen, Denmark
Raffaele Marciello, Italy
Arthur Pic, France

GP3 guys:
Alex Lynn, UK
Dean Stoneman, UK
Marvin Kirchhöfer, Germany
Jimmy Eriksson, Sweden
Richie Stanaway, New Zealand
Dino Zamparelli, UK
Patric Niederhauser, Switzerland

Formula Renault 3.5 guys:
Carlos Sainz, Jr., Spain
Pierre Gasly, France
Roberto Merhi, Spain
Oliver Rowland, UK
Sergey Sirotkin, Russia

Formula 3 guys:
Esteban Ocon, France
Tom Blomqvist, UK/Sweden (races under UK flag today, Swedish flag earlier in his career)
Max Verstappen, Netherlands (well.. yeah)
Antonio Fuoco, Italy
Antonio Giovinazzi, Italy
Felix Rosenqvist, Sweden
Jake Dennis, UK

Ugh... So many British people. At least I did find two Swedes. Woo.

Any leftovers?
Robin Frijns, Netherlands
Mirko Bortolotti, Italy (his career has stalled in terms of Young Driver's programmes but he is still winning the series he competes in. He has reached 24 years though.)
Lance Stroll, Canada (current Italian Formula 4 champion in his first year. 16 years old, backed by Ferrari)
Alice Powell, UK (one of few females in supporting categories. She is the first female to score points in GP3 for example. Already "old" at 21 years and still in GP3.)
Martin Cao, China (British Formula 3 champion)

Think you got them all.  Hopefully three car teams won't happen, but yeah, Carlos Sainz Mk. II is the obvious RB candidate; really no idea who Ferrari would favour, possibly one of their academy guys such as Raffaele Marciello?

[Penfold]

F1Fanatic posted an "alternative" 2015 grid, featuring 20 drivers outside of F1 as voted on by the readers:

1. Kevin Magnussen
2. Jean-Eric Vergne
3. Stoffel Vandoorne
4. Kamui Kobayashi
5. Robin Frijns
6. Antonio Felix da Costa
7. Sebastien Loeb
8. Andre Lotterer
9. Sam Bird
10. Sebastien Buemi
11. Juan Pablo Montoya
12. Mark Webber
13. Paul di Resta
14. Jolyon Palmer
15. Will Power
16. Esteban Ocon
17. Anthony Davidson
18. Alexander Rossi
19. Susie Wolff
20. Heikki Kovalainen

And here is who I would kick out:

4. Kamui Kobayashi
7. Sebastien Loeb
8. Andre Lotterer
10. Sebastien Buemi
11. Juan Pablo Montoya
12. Mark Webber
13. Paul di Resta
17. Anthony Davidson
19. Susie Wolff
20. Heikki Kovalainen

Mainly because these guys (and girl) are old and past their prime. Perhaps a few of these (Kobayashi, Lotterer, di Resta, Buemi, Webber) could still hold their own in F1 but I'd rather replace them with younger talent. ALLOW ME TO DO SO (yes I have too much free time. at work):

1. Kevin Magnussen
2. Jean-Eric Vergne
3. Stoffel Vandoorne
4. Tom Blomqvist
5. Robin Frijns
6. Antonio Felix da Costa
7. Felix Rosenqvist
8. Robert Wickens
9. Sam Bird
10. Raffaele Marciello
11. Alex Lynn
12. Gustav Malja
13. Pierre Gasly
14. Jolyon Palmer
15. Will Power
16. Esteban Ocon
17. Jordan King
18. Alexander Rossi
19. Nobuharu Matsushita
20. Sam Bird

That will do.

I'd add Josef Newgarden to the list. Just won his first IndyCar race, and while it's his fourth season, he has been with one of the smallest teams and is still only 24.

I'd add Josef Newgarden to the list. Just won his first IndyCar race, and while it's his fourth season, he has been with one of the smallest teams and is still only 24.

Never heard the name. Will make sure to remember it!

Sam Bird, so good you named him twice.

Your next Swedish hope, European F3 chap Felix Rosenqvist, had a strong showing at Hockenheim this weekend with two second places and a win; mind you, rookie Charles 'It is I' Leclerc got himself onto every step of the podium, saving his best for last with some fancy driving in the wet.

Sam Bird, so good you named him twice.

Apparently so.

Your next Swedish hope, European F3 chap Felix Rosenqvist, had a strong showing at Hockenheim this weekend with two second places and a win; mind you, rookie Charles 'It is I' Leclerc got himself onto every step of the podium, saving his best for last with some fancy driving in the wet.

Yes, this Leclerc boy has had a super strong start to his F3 campaign. Maybe one of the Sam Birds should be replaced by him!

Yes, this Leclerc boy has had a super strong start to his F3 campaign. Maybe one of the Sam Birds should be replaced by him!

Ah, but which one?  FWIW, I consider Sam Bird no. 20 to be marginally less consistent than Sam Bird no. 9.

I must agree. Sam Bird no. 20 only got the seat because there are no Martian drivers available.

[Penfold]

Your next Swedish hope, European F3 chap Felix Rosenqvist, had a strong showing at Hockenheim this weekend with two second places and a win; mind you, rookie Charles 'It is I' Leclerc got himself onto every step of the podium, saving his best for last with some fancy driving in the wet.

Well. Rosenqvist won the title. Yay. He's sad that F1 don't talk to him though.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121062/rosenqvist-q-and-a-f1-has-ignored-me

Are IndyCar races currently broadcast in Sweden? Would that change if he moved to the series?

They are broadcast, yes, on the same premium pay channel that airs Formula 1 (and GP2, Formula 3, MotoGP, rally, rallycross, Formula Renault 3.5, Nascar, etc.) . Just like with Formula 1 in the US, IndyCar races in Europe are almost always at uncomfortable hours.

If Rosenqvist secured a seat in the US, more of us would watch. Then again we had Kenny Bräck doing the rounds in USA some 10-15 years ago and that never got much attention in "mainstream" media. We didn't have this type of motorsport TV channel at the time though, so there's more room in the TV schedules for IndyCar now.

Great job by Felix... especially considering how many points he lost courtesy of his crazy competitors.  If we're to have just one Swede in F1, I'd prefer him over Ericsson.

Well, I could name a few more Swedes who should beat Ericsson over a season. Gustav Malja for example. A British Swede, Tom Blomqvist, should be able to do it too. He is the son of rally champion Stig Blomqvist and raced under Swedish flag until 2010. He recently won his first race in DTM, during his rookie season and all. Impressive!

[Penfold]

= Made it!
= Able to make it!
= Won't make it!

Right, GP2 guys who seem to be capable of F1 decency:

Jolyon Palmer, UK 
Stoffel Vandoorne, Belgium 
Mitch Evans, UK 
Marco Sørensen, Denmark 
Raffaele Marciello, Italy 
Arthur Pic, France 

Well. 2 of them made it. Marciello may still, he's running 3rd in GP2 this year. Marco Sorensen has migrated to WEC cars and is doing pretty well there. The rest are not happening.

GP3 guys:
Alex Lynn, UK 
Dean Stoneman, UK 
Marvin Kirchhöfer, Germany 
Jimmy Eriksson, Sweden 
Richie Stanaway, New Zealand 
Dino Zamparelli, UK 
Patric Niederhauser, Switzerland 

Uh, I don't know many of these except Alex Lynn (of Williams) and Jimmy Eriksson. And Jimmy isn't making it.

Formula Renault 3.5 guys:
Carlos Sainz, Jr., Spain 
Pierre Gasly, France 
Roberto Merhi, Spain 
Oliver Rowland, UK 
Sergey Sirotkin, Russia 

I did pretty OK here! Two of these have already raced in F1, and more are lining up. Only really Oliver Rowland slipping away from F1 with mediocre results in GP2 this year.

Formula 3 guys:
Esteban Ocon, France 
Tom Blomqvist, UK/Sweden (races under UK flag today, Swedish flag earlier in his career)
Max Verstappen, Netherlands (well.. yeah)
Antonio Fuoco, Italy
Antonio Giovinazzi, Italy 
Felix Rosenqvist, Sweden
Jake Dennis, UK 

oh yes. I did great here! Ocon is in F1, Verstappen has won in F1 (hence two happy faces) and the rest are either contracted to manufacturers running in F1 (Blomqvist, Rosenqvist) or doing OK in junior formula (Giovinazzi leads GP2, Fuoco is third in GP3, Dennis is 4th in in GP3). Some of these names may yet find their way into F1, although I'd expect Blomqvist and Rosenqvist to end up in DTM.

There should be an MF1 award for such sterling work but I'm afraid such decisions are above my pay grade....

It's called procrastination. I only do this while at work.

Hmm, perhaps not the most inspiring word to include in the title of your new award.

2016 MF1 Work Procrastinator Award

[Chrill]

Hah. One more of my lads have joined the ranks of F1 racers. Giovinazzi!

[Penfold]

Three of the seven F3 guys you named have made it... good going.

[Chrill]

Will use this topic to sum up which non-championship driver is driving for what team at the Hungary tests.

Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport:
George Russell (GP3 championship leader currently)

Red Bull Racing:
TBC

Scuderia Ferrari:
Charles Leclerc (Formula 2 championship leader currently)

Force India F1 Team:
Nikita Mazepin (Fourteenth in Formula 3 currently)
Lucas Auer (Third in DTM currently)

Williams Martini Racing:
Luca Ghiotto (Fifth in Formula 2 championship currently)

McLaren Honda Formula 1 Team:
TBC

Scuderia Toro Rosso:
TBC

Haas F1 Team:
Santino Ferrucci (Fourteenth in GP3 currently)

Renault Sport Formula One Team:
Nicholas Latifi (Fourth in Formula 2 currently)
Robert Kubica (Most recently eighth in Formula 1, 2008)

Sauber F1 Team:
Gustav Malja (Eleventh in Formula 2 currently)
Nobuharu Matsushita (Seventh in Formula 2 currently)



To sum it up:
Santino Ferrucci and Nikita Mazepin should not be participating.

[Penfold]

I wonder if Lando Norris will get an outing with McLaren... or do they need to be at least eighteen to participate?

[Chrill]

I believe 18. I do not see why Matushita drives the Sauber if he's not up for McLaren. Unless of course he will drive 1 day for each team. Maybe Vandoorne or Alonso has one day of testing remaining?

[Penfold]

I doubt Alonso would be keen to spend a day sitting around watching various engine components get taken in and out of the car.

[Chrill]

Vandoorne and Lando Norris for the Hungarian tests.

[Penfold]

McLaren tweet says Van Door and Chuck Norris will be present for Hungary tests - evidently being under eighteen not an issue.

Edit: Beat me to it.

[Chrill]

Some lovely racing from the F3 race in Macau.

https://youtu.be/rewf-gvuWBU?t=2m01s

Last two laps of Macau. Ticktum goes P5 to P3 after briefly running almost FOUR wide. And then, the grand finale with Emperor Habsburg competing for victory. This is good stuff.

[Penfold]

Resurrection time.  The old three-car teams idea is coming back around, but now with an allied thought: single-car teams! https://www.racefans.net/2018/07/11/f1-consider-single-three-car-teams/

Still hate the idea of the big three each running an extra car and so almost filling the top ten by themselves, but perhaps letting new entrants run just a single motor would entice a few fresh faces into the sport.  No harm in trying.

[Chrill]

I don't see how one-car teams would be any cheaper than two-car teams. You still need an entire pit crew, hospitality areas, CAR DEVELOPMENT, all that. The things you do save are, probably, the number of mechanics and construction of spare parts. The difference cannot be that large.

If anything, top teams should be able to sell cars to independent one-car teams. A 2018 Ferrari racing in 2019 under a completely different moniker, ineligible for manufacturer points. If we need to fill the grid at all. We're at 20 now, so that's OK. Can't really drop to 18, can we? Haas is doing OK with their "source from Ferrari" strategy. As long as Force India can survive, we're ok. Williams and McLaren are the other two teams looking poorer by every season, but Force India really is hanging on by the smallest of margins.