Messages

Aw damn. Let's just scrap Spain and party in Mexico in 2013 then. They all speak the same language anyway.

Except for the Portuguese. 

Barcelona chiefs have come out against the idea of race sharing.  I hope the guys in Valencia have a plan B up their sleeves.

I SAID SPAIN AND MEXICO, U F00L.

Also, I'd rather keep Barcelona and witness Valencia getting the f*** out of the F1 racing scene.

Oh crap.  Any more such howlers and you'll suspect I don't pay attention to your posts.

Agree with your Spanish track preference, Ljud.  Of course we have Valencia entering year two of a ten-year, $25 million/annum contract, with break fees of $50 million or more... poor dears can't afford to keep or cancel the race.  Perhaps they'll catch Bernie in a charitable mood and get their fee slashed.

Interlagos will be slightly revamped for 2013. The track itself won't change, but a new pit complex exclusively for Formula 1 will be built at what was formerly the straight after the start.

http://www.thef1times.com/news/display/05948#page_top

A chicane will be installed leading onto the "former" start/finish straight but most likely not used by Formula 1, thus rendering the F1 track exactly the same albeit starting at another place!!

Shifting the start/finish point will take some getting used to after all these years, but if that's what's needed to keep Interlagos as a viable F1 prospect then what the hell.


New Jersey circuit layout officially confirmed.  Start/finish line is located by the Hudson River ferry terminal (scenic!) and from there the track runs clockwise for a total of 3.2 miles - apparently with much undulation & shifts of camber along the way.  I maintain a stalwart belief that the configuration will allow for decent racing; rather wide image follows:




A return to Mexico is being pencilled in for next year, or so says one Spanish newspaper: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/05/30/mexico-to-host-grand-prix-return-in-2013/

On the old (but refurbished) Hermanos Rodriguez circuit no less:

I'd quite like that!! It seems both Russia and New Jersey will end up not making it, so why not?

I mean, Bernie makes comments similar to those surrounding Jersey about every new race.

Yeah, he's quite the kidder.  God knows how we'll cope when he's gone.

Montreal on cusp of new ten-year deal: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/13/montreal-close-to-new-long-term-f1-deal-says-ecclestone/

Great news as it's one of those tracks whose absence would diminish the sport.  At least for me.  One point though, Bernie clearly struggling with simple maths/memory as Europe has eight races not ten, and from next year seven - though only until the next one (Hungary?) disappears.


Thailand fancies having a GP: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/thailand-eyes-2014-grand-prix-debut/

Well why not, a mere twenty races on the calendar at the moment so plenty of room for newcomers - New Jersey, Russia, Mexico, Argentina (aren't they borderline bankrupt?), Thailand... doubtless be another couple of hopefuls along shortly.

Bernie gives thumbs up to Interlagos redevelopment plan (first mentioned by Chrill in 10th May post): http://www.motorsport.com/#!/f1/news/ecclestone-approves-plan-to-move-interlagos-pits/

If we are to add five new races, we'll also have to lose five. Teams refuse more than 20 races a season. Rumours has it the Russian GP will be cancelled because they cannot financially pull off an F1 race the same year as the 2014 Winter Olympics. Perhaps Russia will have to wait to 2015 then...

Currently, no new tracks are confirmed for 2013. We actually "only" have 17 confirmed races for next season; all races from 2012 except Belgium, Japan, Europe (Valencia and Barcelona will alternate, starting with a Barcelona race in 2013) and Singapore, as well as the "Grand Prix of America" in New Jersey. We surely mustn't lose both Suzuka and Spa-Francorchamps... There is room to add three more according to the old Concorde Agreement, but there'll be a new one for 2013. I'm guessing Belgium (alternating with France??) and Japan will stay on, perhaps the 20th race will be Argentina, Thailand or Mexico.

I see us with twenty next year but only as I'm assuming Suzuka and Singapore will be with us (though I could happily lose the latter) and that the Franco-Belgian alternation commences with Paul Ricard.  If said assumptions are accurate then pressure to shed a track or two will hold until 2014, when Mexico and/or Thailand slide into the picture - does seem as if Russia will be ready later than first imagined.

So who to lose... Korea struggling to attract crowds/pay Bernie/build the promised city around the circuit.  I suspect their days are numbered.

Not a big lose, either. The only recently added track I like is the Buddh International in India. It's actually a pretty nifty piece of race track. Here's hoping Texas is even better. The start-finish straight ends in a steep incline before the first left hander.

Here's a work in progress of Codemaster's take on the Austin circuit as realized for F1 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3nK6Ch2lWc

Clearly they haven't got the speeds nailed yet as he tops out below 180 mph, but gives an idea of the track.


New French Govt. support GP return, but will it be Paul Ricard or Magny-Cours? http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/19/new-french-government-see-value-in-grand-prix/

Not exactly sure how this would work, but the Russian GP team is keen to incorporate the Winter Olympics stadium into their F1 track layout: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/19/sochi-eyes-olympic-stadium-for-russian-gp/

What, let the main straight run straight through, slap a sharp corner in the middle and hope for overtakes? Sure, sounds spectacular...

Yes, clearly the stadium is screaming out for one of Tilke's 'hairpin at end of massive straight' contraptions.  Just need to remove one of those end grandstands.  Can hardly wait....

Mexico next year? http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/21/mexico-working-on-2013-gp-return-says-billionaire-slim/

Don't get the reference to this mooted Mexican GP taking Valencia's 2013 slot, isn't New Jersey already doing that?

As far as I know, yes, New Jersey is doing that. Valencia and Barcelona is to alternate. France and Belgium too. I guess we will need to lose Singapore and South Korea

I mean, seriously, how is there not a topic discussing circuits?

I figured I needed a good place to discuss the Port Imperial Street Circuit (New Jersey/New York 2013) and a circuit topic would do it.

(Click for larger view)


What are your opinions? I mean, the start/finish straight is basically non-existant, see here:

This would run better in the other direction, that is counter-clockwise I guess. Still, seems like a lame copy of Monaco with wanted some fake Montreal effect. Dunno, dunno. Would have to see it raced, for better judgment. But it seems just too narrow, many slow corners, almost no straights, no fast corners. Or maybe I'm mistaken, the track is over 5 km long after all.

I still can't lose the Monaco impression, however. OK, chicane right after start is just plane stupid, than we have some corners like st.devote/la source/rascasse. Actually 3/4 is totally rascasse. 5-11 looks bit like Beau Rivage or maybe fake Eau Rouge into Kemmel complex. 13 is Massenet from Monaco. Then there's obvious standard trademark Tilke hairpin aka Loews. Followed by long "straight" like in Monaco, except without chicanes. Then 18/19 and 1/2 is again like Piscine in Monaco.
Of course Montreal also have those straight/chicane/hairpin things bundled.

You know my immediate thought on first sight of the track diagram was 'Detroit'; a circuit disturbingly familiar from too many hours on Geoff Crammond's epic F1 GP game.  Now that I've actually gone and grabbed an image of that long dead layout I see the New Jersey take as thankfully less stop-start and, as Ljud has elegantly covered, tilting heavily to Monaco & Montreal.

One thing, the 'straight' running from turn 15 to 18 must be at least 1km.  Anyone else find the proliferation of such lengthy strips of tarmac a little depressing?  Of the recent(ish) additions to the calendar we have Shanghai, Yas Marina, Yeongam, Buddh, and PISC (to abbreviate the New Jersey track name) each with a 1km plus straight - I guess this is where F1 finds itself, reduced to the 'long drag' to provide any possibility of overtaking.  Well, that and tyres that fall apart.   

Detroit layout as raced in the mid- to late-eighties:

I mean, seriously, how is there not a topic discussing circuits?

We're plainly terrible at this whole F1 forum thingy.

I think Tilke compared the PISC (I love the abbreviation) with Spa-Francorchamps, Montreal and Monaco all bundled into one. Which, be honest, SOUNDS amazing. It just, probably, isn't...

I'd rather see a Central Park race, shame that's not in the slightest possible

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96412

2012 Brazilian Grand Prix will see a heavy revision of the final section, since two separate stock car accidents back in April both caused a fatality. Bigger pit entry, bigger run-off, generally more safe and modern final few corners. No major revisions for this weekend though.

So long as that fast, narrow section of track remains unchanged I'm all for the plan


Seeing as you (Mr. Chrill) went to the effort of forming this rather delightful F1 circuit-themed haven, t'would be rude not to use it.  With that in mind comes this news snippet/F1 track story... Germany's Speed Week reports that "leading representatives" of Mexico's motor racing federation are "very confident" an F1 race is viable, with the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez in pole position as the venue.


And here's a photo of said circuit:

From what I've heard, a new circuit is to be built if Mexico gets the nod. A new race circuit, not some lame street circuit in Guadalajara as has also been reported.

Just what the World has been crying out for, an all new F1-specced race track.  Surely by now the planet has sufficient for at least two entire championships - quite useful were you planning a breakaway series.

I'd like to see a return to Imola. Shame it's in the wrong country. Had Imola been located in Abu Dhabi, I'd LOVE for F1 to go racing there.

New F1-spec track under construction in Argentina.  The Velociudad SpeedCity circuit lies approx 80km from Buenos Aires and is due for completion in early 2014; it will measure aprox. 4.7km and has been designed by Populous, the people behind Silverstone's recent revamp.

That's all I know.

In other words, not Tilke. HALLELUJAH

My first thoughts also.  Soon replaced with, ahh, I bet it won't host F1 anytime soon as Bernie's sights seem set on S. Africa and/or Mexico. Two more for Tilke?


French Govt. says plans to alternate a GP slot with Spa are "on track".  Le Figaro reports Paul Ricard in September 2013 will mark F1's return to France.

Also in 'track' news this fine (overcast) day:  Valencia's officials want a friendly chat with Bernie over reducing their race fee, which stands at 21 million Euros and runs until 2014.  Apparently Spain doesn't have a lot of cash right now... who knew?

The same goes for Circuit de Catalunya. They are "reconsidering" their continued participation in both Formula 1 and MotoGP.

Yep, bankruptcy all round.  So then, Bernie has suggested the two Spanish tracks alternating as a possible solution.  Which to me seemed likely quite some time ago.

Magny Cours battling it out with Paul Ricard to host the French GP in 2013.  Patrice Joly, president of the conseil general of the Nievre department, has said that a theme park proposed for Magny Cours could raise enough money and sufficiently develop the surrounding area in order to bring the grand prix back to the track.  Joly said the project, to cost EUR 50 million, would be completed by the summer.

Well, the problem with Magny-Cours never was the track, rather it was the rural setting. Build a goddamn city and we'll be fine.

Agree with you there, but sadly for the Magny-Cours people negotiations between Bernie and Paul Ricard's management are imminent: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/01/25/paul-ricard-set-to-host-2013-french-gp/

Two-into-one Spanish/European GP plan actively pursued by Valencia side: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/01/25/valencia-pushing-barcelona-for-f1-alternation/

I'd rather push for a new venue in Spain. Or for a move to Portuguese Estoril...

Portugal's economy is busy following Greece's into the abyss.  Sadly I don't see an Estoril revamp and handing $20 million/year to Bernie as a high priority for their Government.

I figured there wasn't a great topic to discuss the upcoming changes to Formula 1. Allow me to create this topic. And post this image:



Now take a look at those 2017 Pirelli tyres. Oh mama. I like.

Good chance I posted this on another thread a couple of months back, but it's a handy reference to have here for how the cars are changing: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/05/10/side-side-compare-f1-cars-2016-2017/

And yes, the tyres do look pretty tasty.  Just irritated they didn't go down the 'minimal front-wing + ground effects - DRS' route.

Thought this was maybe a thread to keep track of all the rule changes we will have during 2017...

A quick look at what the regulations will require by the time we get to 2017:

I... don't understand.

And yes, the tyres do look pretty tasty.  Just irritated they didn't go down the 'minimal front-wing + ground effects - DRS' route.

I sort of agree. I don't mind DRS really, but it should be toned down. I'd love a more simplistic approach to front wings, akin to what was used back in the early 2000s such as here:

Red Bull now testing the tyres too.


One more photo. I like these tyres OK?

New rules covering use of power unit components above and beyond the five per year limit: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/09/28/fia-prevent-repeat-hamiltons-power-unit-stockpiling/

Which I believe I complained about. Perhaps not here, but yes. Only the most recently introduced engine may be used. If they introduce engine 7, then engine 6 is no longer usable. If they introduce engine 8, then engine 7 is no longer available. This is good.

Formula E gets a new chassis supplier from 2018 season.  More efficient aero, reduced weight courtesy of fancy materials, and a bulked-up battery will, it is hoped, allow cars to run for 45 minutes and so eliminate mid-race car swaps: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128081

See! That's what I said back in 2015. The sport will only improve as technology improves.

I've watched a few races (not avidly, but they've been on the TV whilst I've been in the room) and I don't have an issue with the car-swapping so a non-stop race won't by default be an improvement; what I'd rather they focussed on is making the cars quicker.  So yes for the new aero and weight shaving, and yes for beefier batteries, but for me these gains should be seen as a means of increasing the agility and speed of the cars rather than increasing their range just for the sake of it.

A fairly low-voltage series all in all, I saw bits and pieces of it, the final Battersea Park race was okay, Sam Bird won even though he finished second because Sarrasin ran out of battery power except his car was still moving. Ah... okay...

There probablu needs to be some fine-tuning going forward, but I think there has to be a place for an electric series given the way road cars are evolving...

If we consider this season a demo/prototype, then the series can surely be something in the future. They have all the names racing and all the funding necessary. It's a matter of attracting crowds and I think in time they can. I don't think this will be a new A1GP

I agree with you, I think there has to be a place for an electric racing series in these times.  I, for one, am quite interested in getting an electric road car as a little city run around, for now their  range does not merit anything more than that but I think we all need to get on board sooner or later and Formula E should help with acceptance...

As for the racing, there does need to be a few tweaks, although it is encouraging that so many famous names are involved...

Well, take the Tesla cars. Their Model S have a very good range (265 miles/426 km) and that was launched way back in 2012. I'm wondering why none of the major car manufacturers have caught up because that's more than enough to get you to work and back home and then some.

What's the range of the Chevy Volt?

I think FE was hampered by the tracks more than anything else. Even had they were able to race at 100%, it would have been difficult on tracks like that.

"The 2013/14 model year Volt all-electric range is 38 mi (61 km)"

In other words, it's shit. Then again, the Volt isn't all-electric to begin with. It's a hybrid.

Just watched the race from this weekend. Other than Buemi running away with the win, it was great throughout the pack. Allowing different powertrain manufacturers doesn't seem to have hurt competition, other than Renault apparently being way better than everyone else.

The coverage still needs some work. They lack camera angles so we weren't able to see any of the incidents. The radio transmission system doesn't work correctly. Occasionally they provided information about who was talking, but usually the announcers just had to guess. Many of the teams don't speak English on the radio either, which sucks, but I'm fine with it.

Jaguar to enter a team next season and it will be overseen by a little known outfit called Williams: http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/12/15/williams-to-run-jaguars-formula-e-team/

New seat belt system being trialled which could soon spell the end for minimum pit-stop times: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121462

Well, we had the first race of the series today. Did you watch it? I watched the first 5 laps. Dull track did not encourage overtaking or any sort of proper racing. Still, we had a nasty incident on the last lap. Nicholas Prost decided Nick Heidfeld should not overtake him and so decided to turn into him. Heidfeld crashed heavily but survived unscathed. It looked awful. Worst part is, Prost didn't even bother to check on Heidfeld. He just walked away like nothing happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Bzmu1ZIVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5z6hDs5YpA

We are together in electric dreams!!  Whiny sounding electric cars racing around deserted street circuits are the future of car car racing, apparently.  Commentators telling us that a driver has 33% battery left is what we have to look forward to... As for the race, it was mind numbingly dull until Nico Prost decided to switch his brain off and launch Quick Nick into the Beijing smog...

Two laps was enough for me....

Are we getting another race or has the series gone flat?  Not that I want to watch it I should hasten to add, I'm just curious...

I came up with an idea to improve the series.  Have all the teams sponsored by e-cigarette manufacturers, with drivers puffing on the e-cigs whenever they are out of the car.  Redesign the cars to look like 1970's F1 cars with a simulated V12 engine noise and let them go at it.  If one squints and turns ones head to the side whilst watching half-drunk it might, just might, make for a better spectacle.  At the very least it would be a novelty for a short while...

Second race of the series is due 22nd November in Putraya, Malaysia. This is followed by a race in Uruguay on the 13th December, Buenos Aires (Argentina) 10 January. Then Miami in March. So they do have long pauses sometimes.

Sam Bird won race 2, Prost got a grid penalty for his faux pas in the last race but still finished in the top six. I didn't watch it, no idea whether it was as dull as round one...

Almost certainly....

Eight manufacturers selected to supply powertrains from 2015/16 season: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117790

Anyone watch the Monaco round today?  It was on ITV4 here in Brit Land and was, well... okay.  Bruno Senna went airborne right after the start, presumably these cars have front wheel guards in order to stop them launching skywards but they seem to keep doing it...

Sebastien Buemi won it, almost an ex-Minardi man having driven for Toro Rosso...

I did see the start crash. That track looked quite narrow. Good practice for the workers since the big show is coming to town soon.

There are a ton of former STR drivers in Formula E.

IndyCars have rear wheel guards/pods as well, but from everything I've seen, I don't think they can truly stop a car from going airborne if they run into the car in front at a high enough speed. They break off and the car goes over the wheel anyway. They are a safety improvement since people hit them first, which could allow them to race closer together in typical conditions, but if the rear car collides at speed then they're still going airborne.

[electric dream]

I'm fairly certain this isn't some elaborate April Fools: http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2011/motorsport-big-push-for-electric-car-racing-24330

Electric cars drink battery life at high speed, so how far on one charge?  Do we get short races or pitting to 'refuel' - which would be an exciting wait even with ultra-capacitors.  And then there's the sound... my god, it will be a struggle to keep the crowds at bay.

It does not have to replace Formula 1 though. We have A1GP, which never got very popular, and some other series (what's the one with soccer teams?). This could just be a new series with no viewership, because Formula 1 won't turn to electric engines in 2013 for sure.

A series with no one watching... a sponsor's delight!

Is the football team one still going?  Been to Google, did some 'Googling', now back with important info.: It's the Superleague Formula, and its 4th season gets underway in Estoril at end of May - appears to visit just 6 tracks (2 races per weekend?) http://www.superleagueformula.com/races

Huge names in the series as well, such as (and this is 2010) Narain Karthikeyan, Chris van der Drift (Brilliant name), Franck Montagny, Robert Doornbos and Sébastien Bourdais. Previous drivers include Enrique Bernoldi, Antonio Pizzonia and Ho-Pin Tung!

Wow.  Star-studded.  Perhaps get a few to double up with this all-electric extravaganza.

Look at you with your 1010 posts.  At this rate you should surpass my tally no problem.

I post 45% of this forum's posts, you post 45%, and everyone else combined makes up about 10%. How am I catching you?

Higher daily rate???

All I know is you're now approx. 100 behind - first time gap has been so small.

A few others posting would be welcome.  Save Chrill from this dangerous habit of talking to me....

I love you, Penfold. You are my electric dream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9foZ7KVSng

Good grief, the FIA is actually pressing on with the wacky notion of electric racing: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/08/28/formula-e-the-long-term-alternative-to-formula-1/

Presumably stems from the misplaced belief that electric-only cars have a useful role to play in mainstream transport, which with current battery technology they clearly don't.  The most promising 'electric' cars in development have a small petrol/diesel motor to keep the wheels turning when you want to do more than 100 miles in a day.


Formula E presses on, organiser believes top F1 teams will eventually join in the fun: http://grandprix247.com/2013/07/12/formula-e-expected-to-attract-top-formula-1-teams/

Electric racing cars... sounds exciting to me.

We'll always be together,
together in electric dreams!

Great, now that song is stuck in my head....

Williams FW40 - might be a rocket in a straight line but where's all the aero work?  Hope there are a lot of pieces to be added before Oz.

I just bought a bottle of Martini Asti. GREAT COLOURS, as always. Back to the car... It doesn't look incredibly fast though. Williams may well be the losers of this regulation change.

So, Toro Rosso + Red Bull + Haas all reveal tomorrow?

Red Bull:



Toro Rosso (love the livery):




Forgot about Haas:

I'm not a massive fan of the Toro Rosso livery yet. I know people like it, but I am not convinced. The car itself looks great though. It's very Mercedesy.

... but it's SHINY!  What's not to love!

Yes. I've come around to it. It's great on track.

[McLaren MCL32]

McLaren MCL32



Look at this orange beast. That front wing is intriguing. That rear wing is spectacular. That car... looks beautiful. I really like it. They didn't go over the top with orange, it's a decent enough look with some black remaining. The side pods and barge boards are intricate. If the Honda engine is up for it, this car will be there or thereabouts on tracks which suit it. I am happy.

My eyes are struggling to pick out details around the side-pods/barge boards.  Want some hi-res images of the actual car (not renders) for a clearer look, but for now only this quality:



Agree on the wings, both look top drawer.

But I posted a high quality image above you. Silly man.

My eyes are struggling to pick out details around the side-pods/barge boards.  Want some hi-res images of the actual car (not renders) for a clearer look...

Good shot of the whole side-pod/barge board configuration:

[Ferrari SF70H]

Mercedes W08 (shark fin to be added later):





And one for all you lovers of carbon fibre floors:

I really don't like the livery, I never have. The car itself is STUNNING though. The incredible amount of detail. Those side pods, that front wing, everything about this car. It looks like a car you finish your season with, not one you take out for pre-season testing. Incredible. However, I am worried Hamilton has already won this championship. Here's hoping for a Red Bull or Ferrari (or at least a Bottas) upset!

This seems like as good a place to post this as any since you two are the only ones here. I'm planning on buying new hosting for the site and transitioning everything over. That will include a new forum, and I'm not sure if the posts and data from this one will transfer. For now, I'm planning on moving the site to the minardif1.com address on the new host, and everything currently stored on the minardif1.org address on the current host will stay up as well for the foreseeable future (hidden behind a redirection page to the new site.)

So the point is, you might be losing these posts to the extent that you want to keep the discussion going. But you'll be able to access them and post on the new forum. This may be as soon as this weekend because I need to get things moving for 2017.

Aye aye, Cap'n.  We be ready to follow you across the gangplank....

Merc W08 - As Chrill says, this is a beast of a car.  Rolls out of the factory looking every inch the fully developed creature, God knows how intricate the detailing will be come Melbourne.  All quite ominous for the competition... can't see anyone besides Red Bull coming close.

Ferrari SF70H



Interesting car, this. It's sporting some very wide but not very large air intakes, a rather compressed rear and an intriguing shark fin with a Mercedes-esque "T-wing". It clearly looks different to the 2016 car, probably not a whole lot carried over from the old challenger. The livery? Not a lot to comment on. It's typically Ferrari. It definitely looks less busy and less refined than the Mercedes. I don't expect this car to win many races this year. Sorry.

Plenty of space under those side-pods, should be a positive for controlling airflow.

FORCE INDIA



That front wing. What is that even.

Overall not a very exciting look. I was expecting a sweet livery now that they are celebrating 10 years in F1. Instead we get a step nosed (sort of) front wing and a big chunk of metal for a fin.

Might categorise that one as homely.  I'd forgotten quite how much I dislike that style of nose, and a tepid livery to boot.  Hoping they have something more in mind for the shark fin, like subtle (or obvious!) aero styling and perhaps more of an attempt to incorporate it into their exciting colour scheme.

I did realise what's bothering me about this crop of 'shark fins', why they look a little jarring to my eye, it's that they're sat higher than the newly lowered rear wings to which F1 has thankfully returned.  I dare say that once the cars are whizzing round the tracks I won't give them a second thought.

Someone on F1Fanatic has digitally stolen the RS17's fins:

I honestly prefer them with shark fins. I think it looks real cool. Also note that rake.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but how many pictures is a video worth?  The Sauber C36 on track: https://youtu.be/EixDrunQKa0

Edit: One pic just because I love these low-angle shots.

It's a damn beautiful car. The rear wing looks a bit fun, because the end plates bend inward to actually fit the car. They're THAT wide.

Wider, lower, and with proper fat tyres, aka how an F1 car should look - and also how they were up until the early-nineties.  Twenty years of pointless tinkering but now it's come full circle, well almost, still DRS to go....

Renderings of the new Williams: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/17/compare-williams-new-fw40-with-their-2016-car/

LOOK AT THIS HANDSOME LITTLE CAR. LOOK AT THE SAUBER.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/20/pictures-sauber-reveals-first-images-of-its-2017-car/sauber-c36/

More images here.

Liking the gold stripe on that blue, puts me in mind of some of the old tobacco era liveries.  White is a tad stark down the sides though - perhaps some sponsor logos would help soften it.  Also not sure about shark fins rearing their ugly heads, but those minor gripes aside I must agree it's a fine looking motor.  Seems to have a good level of aero detail for an initial launch, let's hope that bodes well for the year.

I really like shark fins, so I don't mind it one bit. The lack of sponsors is a concern. The wings, side pods, barge boards and so on should all be place holders right? They don't want to give up any secrets they may have found.

Assuming car will be broadly similar to this for start of testing and then finessed aero pieces ready for final tests/Melbourne.  Guess I'm just hoping this already provides a good base level before any fancy bits get added.  Quite small intakes on the sidepods, and a chunkier one on the engine cover - some expecting this approach across the field for aerodynamic benefits.

Paint the shark fin blue and it won't bother me so much.


Just one quick shot of the Renault - shark fin much improved with suitable colouring.

That's an interesting barge board on the Renault. Other than that, it looks very similar to the Sauber but the black colors on rather poor picture quality makes it difficult to pick out details. The Williams looks most different so far, but that was just a render.

I like both the shark fins and the angled rear wing endplates. On the livery side, both of these are improvements from 2016. Both of them are above average, arguably even good. What's not good is the lack of sponsorship on both cars.

Full range of hi-res renders here: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/21/pictures-renaults-new-f1-car-for-2017-breaks-cover/

That's a better picture. I'm not too fond of the half yellow half black design they are sporting. The two don't go well together, the front looking more like the 2016 car and the rear looking like an unfinished painting.

Only a week until Sauber dazzles us with their new car, the others following on shortly thereafter.

While we wait for such delights to fill the F1 winter void, we must struggle by on thin gruel such as this: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/14/renault-appoints-new-head-aerodynamics/
Yes, a new aero guy for Renault.  That seems to be about the biggest F1 story of the day.


... and Williams hires ex-Ferrari aero guy: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/16/williams-hires-ex-ferrari-aerodynamicist/

Can't be any worse than whoever's been in charge of that department until now.


Engine & chassis designed for each other and other such improvements, out of the mouth of Renault's Remi Taffin: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/21/renaults-engine-fits-car-year-taffin/


Honda chap forecasts engine to be at level of Merc's offering by opening race, though unfortunately that's the 2016 Merc engine and not this year's: http://www.crash.net/f1/news/240430/1/honda-reveals-targets-for-90-per-cent-new-engine.html

Well, November 2016 Merc was far better than November 2016 Honda. If they improve like that over the winter, imagine where the Honda will be after the summer break, let alone next season? Alonso might just continue for another year if what Honda is saying comes true.

I like lists. So far, after 2.5 days of testing, this is how I rate all the teams. THE LIST MAY CONTAIN SURPRISES

1. Ferrari (yup)
2. Mercedes (quite)
---
3. Red Bull
4. Williams (yeah)
5. Toro Rosso
6. Renault
7. Force India
8. McLaren
9. Haas
---
10. Sauber

I think Williams are looking pretty good, I think Sauber is in quite big trouble (Ericsson says he is happy, but I watched a video interview with Swedish broadcaster Viasat and his body expression claim that something is badly wrong).

The words coming out are that the Ferrari and Mercedes teams are in a league of their own. The Ferrari is apparently crazy stable through mid/high-speed corners. So is the Mercedes, perhaps not quite as well as the Italian car but far superior to the rest.

Red Bull are running a fairly naked car in terms of advanced aerodynamic solutions so they may well catch up by Australia. Williams are looking OK so far, although their car also appears a bit naked.

I am so far very disappointed with McLaren, who are already using their 3rd engine this week. It's not looking reliable, and so they cannot focus on setting the car up. I fully expect my ratings to change by test 2 and still prove inaccurate come Australia.

I know the Mercedes has broken into the 1m19s bracket on super-softs, but watching at the fast Turn 9 right-hander the Ferrari doing 1m21s on mediums still looks the most impressive car to me. It just looks so stable and consistent.
- Gary Anderson

Fair reading of current state of play.  Still expect it to be Merc, Red Bull, and then Ferrari once the season gets going, but with much tighter bunching than in recent years.  Also expect McLaren (Honda) to pull it together and haul themselves well into the 'best of the rest' battle.

Lance Stroll is off again. In two days, he has crashed three times. You know what, in pretty much one day he has crashed 3 times. This is embarassing. He was off after only a few laps on his first day, and now just crashed for the second time today.

On a related note, hasstrollcrashedtoday.com is available. Perhaps buy it and redirect to here, Matt?

Some words of comfort for Stroll from a certain Mr. L. Hamilton: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/02/hamilton-defends-stroll-its-not-an-easy-car-to-drive/

Hammy being nice to other drivers? I am sure this is #fakenews.

I'm sure there's a better way of moving a thread to this new site, but I'm just going to copy & paste the posts of a few into manageable chunks of text.

I swear these threads are getting earlier every year - perhaps next time it will sneak in before Abu Dhabi - but the FIA has gone and ratified next year's calendar and it needed a good home to overwinter:

March 26 - Australia (Melbourne)
April 9 - China (Shanghai)
April 16 - Bahrain (Bahrain)
April 30 - Russia (Sochi)
May 14 - Spain (Barcelona)
May 28 - Monaco (Monte Carlo)
June 11 - Canada (Montreal)
June 25 - Azerbaijan (Baku)
July 9 - Austria (Spielberg)
July 16 - Great Britain (Silverstone)
July 30 - Hungary (Budapest)
August 27 - Belgium (Spa-Francorchamps)
September 3 - Italy (Monza)
September 17 - Singapore (Singapore)
October 1 - Malaysia (Sepang)
October 8 - Japan (Suzuka)
October 22 - USA (Austin)
October 29 - Mexico (Mexico City)
November 12 - Brazil (Sao Paulo)
November 26 - Abu Dhabi (Abu Dhabi)

Brazil is provisional as Bernie is still in discussions with that country's President.


Renault bringing new engine design for 2017 - complete with concepts not seen in F1 (probably); unit's output will be dialled back at start of season to ensure reliability, but is said to offer much scope for improvement: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renault-expects-cautious-start-with-all-new-2017-f1-engine-861660/

It seems Renault is gunning for 2018, yeah? Their current engine is nearing the end of its development life so this is a good idea. It might mean Mercedes will secure the championship before Red Bull get up to speed though.

That's it in a nutshell.  Clearly essential development for Renault's future success but, as you say, it may simply mean Merc. can sprint ahead in the 2017 contest - unless Newey & team can produce a car of astonishing brilliance; or if Ferrari turn out a... nah, forget it, not going to happen.

Exactly.

So how about Honda getting everything right? Or, Mercedes getting it pretty wrong on aero but maintaining a dominant engine? That would push Force India up there.

I wouldn't bank on Merc getting any aspect wrong....

I can imagine McLaren being right up with Ferrari, or even ahead depending how the prancing horse guys adapt to these new regs, but challenging Mercedes?  I just can't see them closing such a huge gap in one bite; frankly if they can be consistently within half a second in qualifying, and just a few tenths off on race pace, then I'd be more than a little impressed.

I hadn't noticed but the Baku Street Circuit is labelled as the "2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix" instead of the European Grand Prix. That actually makes me a bit happy. Also does not clash with Le Mans.

Both positives.  Not exactly of earth-shattering importance, but as Plato was fond of saying: it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick....

Here's one chap not overly optimistic about 2017's rule changes: http://en.f1i.com/news/88555-new-rules-not-change-better-says-f1-designer-furbatto.html

Bah. Without reading Mister Pessimist, my gut feeling tells me that we might well see fewer overtakes under braking or due to significantly different tyre wear levels, but we will see more overtakes caused by driver error.

Mika Hakkinen's magnificent move on Schumacher at Spa was helped by his ability to stay close through Eau Rouge. With new rules, drivers can go flat out there (Even when trailing someone else) which effectively makes the whole run after Eau Rouge more closely packed. The ability to stay closer behind others in medium-to-high-speed corners will open up for slipstreaming battles on the following straights.

I can picture drivers making stupid rookie errors over the final 10 laps of GPs, Singapore in particular, simply due to exhaustion. This opens up for unusual finishing positions for the lucky guys. Yes, luck might matter again. That can cause upsets and surprises which we want. I'd love to see a podium with a Toro Rosso, a McLaren, and a Williams (as opposed to a Mercedes, another Mercedes, and a Red Bull).

I'm definitely more with your optimism than that guy's pessimism.  For one thing, we have the prospect of tyres that allow drivers to push even when close to another car - imagine that!  And if they do overheat you should be able to drop back for a time and regain performance ready for another attack.  And there's the two points you make: being better able to stay in contact through high-speed corners; and added driver fatigue courtesy of faster cornering speeds, more violent braking, and those (hopefully) durable tyres.  I assume there will also be a bump in the benefits of slip-streaming, what with the chunky new wheels dirtying the air.

I assume there will also be a bump in the benefits of slip-streaming, what with the chunky new wheels dirtying the air.

Quite true. The car in front will have to punch through more air (wider car) and the air will be dirtier (bigger tyres) which will give an increased advantage to anyone stuck behind. The negative may of course be a difficulty staying behind a car through slower or medium speed corners.

Crazy enough, Monaco may become easier to overtake at. You could get a good run of the car in front through the right hander in the tunnel. It's possible.