MF1 Forum

Other => Formula One => Topic started by: Penfold on March 03, 2017, 01:08:22 AM

Title: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 03, 2017, 01:08:22 AM
I'm sure there's a better way of moving a thread to this new site, but I'm just going to copy & paste the posts of a few into manageable chunks of text.

I swear these threads are getting earlier every year - perhaps next time it will sneak in before Abu Dhabi - but the FIA has gone and ratified next year's calendar and it needed a good home to overwinter:

March 26 - Australia (Melbourne)
April 9 - China (Shanghai)
April 16 - Bahrain (Bahrain)
April 30 - Russia (Sochi)
May 14 - Spain (Barcelona)
May 28 - Monaco (Monte Carlo)
June 11 - Canada (Montreal)
June 25 - Azerbaijan (Baku)
July 9 - Austria (Spielberg)
July 16 - Great Britain (Silverstone)
July 30 - Hungary (Budapest)
August 27 - Belgium (Spa-Francorchamps)
September 3 - Italy (Monza)
September 17 - Singapore (Singapore)
October 1 - Malaysia (Sepang)
October 8 - Japan (Suzuka)
October 22 - USA (Austin)
October 29 - Mexico (Mexico City)
November 12 - Brazil (Sao Paulo)
November 26 - Abu Dhabi (Abu Dhabi)

Brazil is provisional as Bernie is still in discussions with that country's President.


Renault bringing new engine design for 2017 - complete with concepts not seen in F1 (probably); unit's output will be dialled back at start of season to ensure reliability, but is said to offer much scope for improvement: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renault-expects-cautious-start-with-all-new-2017-f1-engine-861660/


Quote from: Chrill
It seems Renault is gunning for 2018, yeah? Their current engine is nearing the end of its development life so this is a good idea. It might mean Mercedes will secure the championship before Red Bull get up to speed though.


That's it in a nutshell.  Clearly essential development for Renault's future success but, as you say, it may simply mean Merc. can sprint ahead in the 2017 contest - unless Newey & team can produce a car of astonishing brilliance; or if Ferrari turn out a... nah, forget it, not going to happen.


Quote from: ChrillExactly.

So how about Honda getting everything right? Or, Mercedes getting it pretty wrong on aero but maintaining a dominant engine? That would push Force India up there.


I wouldn't bank on Merc getting any aspect wrong....

I can imagine McLaren being right up with Ferrari, or even ahead depending how the prancing horse guys adapt to these new regs, but challenging Mercedes?  I just can't see them closing such a huge gap in one bite; frankly if they can be consistently within half a second in qualifying, and just a few tenths off on race pace, then I'd be more than a little impressed.


Quote from: ChrillI hadn't noticed but the Baku Street Circuit is labelled as the "2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix" instead of the European Grand Prix. That actually makes me a bit happy. Also does not clash with Le Mans.


Both positives.  Not exactly of earth-shattering importance, but as Plato was fond of saying: it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick....

Here's one chap not overly optimistic about 2017's rule changes: http://en.f1i.com/news/88555-new-rules-not-change-better-says-f1-designer-furbatto.html


Quote from: ChrillBah. Without reading Mister Pessimist, my gut feeling tells me that we might well see fewer overtakes under braking or due to significantly different tyre wear levels, but we will see more overtakes caused by driver error.

Mika Hakkinen's magnificent move on Schumacher at Spa was helped by his ability to stay close through Eau Rouge. With new rules, drivers can go flat out there (Even when trailing someone else) which effectively makes the whole run after Eau Rouge more closely packed. The ability to stay closer behind others in medium-to-high-speed corners will open up for slipstreaming battles on the following straights.

I can picture drivers making stupid rookie errors over the final 10 laps of GPs, Singapore in particular, simply due to exhaustion. This opens up for unusual finishing positions for the lucky guys. Yes, luck might matter again. That can cause upsets and surprises which we want. I'd love to see a podium with a Toro Rosso, a McLaren, and a Williams (as opposed to a Mercedes, another Mercedes, and a Red Bull).


I'm definitely more with your optimism than that guy's pessimism.  For one thing, we have the prospect of tyres that allow drivers to push even when close to another car - imagine that!  And if they do overheat you should be able to drop back for a time and regain performance ready for another attack.  And there's the two points you make: being better able to stay in contact through high-speed corners; and added driver fatigue courtesy of faster cornering speeds, more violent braking, and those (hopefully) durable tyres.  I assume there will also be a bump in the benefits of slip-streaming, what with the chunky new wheels dirtying the air.


Quote from: Chrill
Quote from: PenfoldI assume there will also be a bump in the benefits of slip-streaming, what with the chunky new wheels dirtying the air.
Quite true. The car in front will have to punch through more air (wider car) and the air will be dirtier (bigger tyres) which will give an increased advantage to anyone stuck behind. The negative may of course be a difficulty staying behind a car through slower or medium speed corners.

Crazy enough, Monaco may become easier to overtake at. You could get a good run of the car in front through the right hander in the tunnel. It's possible.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 03, 2017, 01:13:27 AM
Only a week until Sauber dazzles us with their new car, the others following on shortly thereafter.

While we wait for such delights to fill the F1 winter void, we must struggle by on thin gruel such as this: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/14/renault-appoints-new-head-aerodynamics/
Yes, a new aero guy for Renault.  That seems to be about the biggest F1 story of the day.


... and Williams hires ex-Ferrari aero guy: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/16/williams-hires-ex-ferrari-aerodynamicist/

Can't be any worse than whoever's been in charge of that department until now.


Engine & chassis designed for each other and other such improvements, out of the mouth of Renault's Remi Taffin: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/21/renaults-engine-fits-car-year-taffin/


Honda chap forecasts engine to be at level of Merc's offering by opening race, though unfortunately that's the 2016 Merc engine and not this year's: http://www.crash.net/f1/news/240430/1/honda-reveals-targets-for-90-per-cent-new-engine.html


Quote from: ChrillWell, November 2016 Merc was far better than November 2016 Honda. If they improve like that over the winter, imagine where the Honda will be after the summer break, let alone next season? Alonso might just continue for another year if what Honda is saying comes true.


Quote from: ChrillI like lists. So far, after 2.5 days of testing, this is how I rate all the teams. THE LIST MAY CONTAIN SURPRISES

1. Ferrari (yup)
2. Mercedes (quite)
---
3. Red Bull
4. Williams (yeah)
5. Toro Rosso
6. Renault
7. Force India
8. McLaren
9. Haas
---
10. Sauber

I think Williams are looking pretty good, I think Sauber is in quite big trouble (Ericsson says he is happy, but I watched a video interview with Swedish broadcaster Viasat and his body expression claim that something is badly wrong).

The words coming out are that the Ferrari and Mercedes teams are in a league of their own. The Ferrari is apparently crazy stable through mid/high-speed corners. So is the Mercedes, perhaps not quite as well as the Italian car but far superior to the rest.

Red Bull are running a fairly naked car in terms of advanced aerodynamic solutions so they may well catch up by Australia. Williams are looking OK so far, although their car also appears a bit naked.

I am so far very disappointed with McLaren, who are already using their 3rd engine this week. It's not looking reliable, and so they cannot focus on setting the car up. I fully expect my ratings to change by test 2 and still prove inaccurate come Australia.

Quote from: Gary Anderson, AutosportI know the Mercedes has broken into the 1m19s bracket on super-softs, but watching at the fast Turn 9 right-hander the Ferrari doing 1m21s on mediums still looks the most impressive car to me. It just looks so stable and consistent.
- Gary Anderson


Fair reading of current state of play.  Still expect it to be Merc, Red Bull, and then Ferrari once the season gets going, but with much tighter bunching than in recent years.  Also expect McLaren (Honda) to pull it together and haul themselves well into the 'best of the rest' battle.


Quote from: ChrillLance Stroll is off again. In two days, he has crashed three times. You know what, in pretty much one day he has crashed 3 times. This is embarassing. He was off after only a few laps on his first day, and now just crashed for the second time today.

On a related note, hasstrollcrashedtoday.com is available. Perhaps buy it and redirect to here, Matt?


Some words of comfort for Stroll from a certain Mr. L. Hamilton: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/02/hamilton-defends-stroll-its-not-an-easy-car-to-drive/


Quote from: ChrillHammy being nice to other drivers? I am sure this is #fakenews.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 03, 2017, 08:04:46 AM
Pirelli wets not up to snuff, new ones planned for China GP: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128343/pirelli-already-planning-new-wet-tyres
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on March 03, 2017, 10:46:57 AM
Let's be honest, you just wanted to make sure you jumped out to a healthy post count lead over Chrill.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 04, 2017, 12:36:58 AM
Fringe benefit.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 04, 2017, 02:53:37 AM
All going swimmingly for McHonda: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda-admits-mechanical-issue-a-worry-for-f1-season-start-879232/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 05, 2017, 03:26:47 PM
I've already counted out McHonda for the 2017 season. They'll have to run the 2016 engine to achieve any sort of reliability.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 06, 2017, 12:29:28 AM
They won't do that so we'd better expect some early DNFs.  I still think they can be fourth come season end (I may be hopelessly wrong!), but obviously loss of testing mileage does put them even further on the back foot.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 06, 2017, 01:40:47 AM
Suffice to say I won't pick Alonso as my 2nd driver.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 06, 2017, 01:51:58 AM
Williams (Massa), Force India & Toro Rosso all seem a safer bet at the moment; but then again McHonda could have trouble-free running in this week's tests... and England could win the next World Cup.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 07, 2017, 01:07:45 AM
Tyre guy says non-stop races would be possible at certain tracks - but of course drivers must use two different compounds: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/05/drivers-can-go-non-stop-on-new-tyres-hembery/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 07, 2017, 03:25:41 PM
Depending on the circuit, Pirelli man comments make me think a tactic could be to go on Softs the entire race, and only switch to the harder of the compounds with a few laps to go. Why waste time on slower compounds?

If the ultra softs can cope with the "pressure" of the Monaco Street Circuit, why not do 70ish laps on them and switch to supers at the final lap?
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 08, 2017, 01:52:24 AM
I'm sure we'll see something along those lines if the softer compounds can take it.  And talking of tyres... The Hulk is loving them: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/07/new-tyres-double-the-fun-hulkenberg/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 09, 2017, 03:49:31 AM
Force India has much work to do before Melbourne: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128418/force-india-has-found-EUR~a-lot-of-weaknessesEURTM


Alonso: "We have only one problem, that is the power unit.  There is no reliability and there is no power."  Yes, it's 2016 all over - though at least no token system for 2017 so Honda can solve its ills, or at least they are free to try.  Transcript of Q&A with Fernando: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/09/qa-alonso-on-mclaren-hondas-troubled-start/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 09, 2017, 08:54:32 PM
Sauber's best chance at avoiding last place this year is McLaren.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 10, 2017, 01:57:24 AM
Then they have no chance.

Red Bull - Upgraded chassis & engine due for Melbourne: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/09/red-bull-to-have-chassis-and-engine-upgrades-at-melbourne/

Will we have a three-way tussle this season?  All thingys crossed that Ferrari and Red Bull have race wins in them this time round, it certainly seems plausible based on testing.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 13, 2017, 07:19:32 AM
Good overviews of the teams at F1Fanatic.  First up is Sauber: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/13/strong-start-essential-sauber-year-old-engine/

Ericsson's comments show the difference being made by that Longbow cash: "I think already from the roll-out of the car to now there's been lot of updates.  The floor is new, bargeboards and all different things. It's pretty much as much updates as we had all year last year in one week. It's definitely a big difference and that's very positive. It makes life better for us."


Renault second to receive the treatment: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/13/hulkenberg-bets-future-renault-delivering/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 13, 2017, 12:05:40 PM
I wish Sauber could revert to the 2017 Ferrari engine mid-season. The chassis looks fairly OK through corners, so they can surely do well in Monaco and Hungary. They are seriously lacking power though, and Sauber will definitely struggle to score points.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 14, 2017, 01:23:59 AM
Need to grab any they can early on; just hope the 2016 Ferrari unit can handle this year's increased running at full throttle and the extra race that each needs to last.

And then there's Renault and their troublesome ERS, although boss guy sounding confident of a fix before Melbourne... not long till we find out.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 19, 2017, 01:25:40 AM
More power for Merc teams as company commits to running latest spec of engine in Melbourne: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128549/mercedes-commits-to-latestspec-engine
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 19, 2017, 01:28:33 PM
Quote from: Penfold on March 19, 2017, 01:25:40 AM
More power for Merc teams as company commits to running latest spec of engine in Melbourne: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128549/mercedes-commits-to-latestspec-engine
That must mean they are confident about reliability. They ran long and hard in Spain with their Mercedes engine, and now they still force an update for round 1. Watch out, Ferrari, for here the German Silver arrows are.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 22, 2017, 01:24:43 AM
What do we want?  More powerful DRS!  When do we want it? Some time after the Chinese GP (if it's decided that the current version has lost too much of its kick due to aero changes): http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/21/f1-to-consider-drs-changes-after-chinese-gp/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 22, 2017, 01:45:27 AM
I admittedly don't mind DRS existing, but I want to aid overtaking rather than create it. If DRS has a reduced effect this year, I'm ok with keeping it as such. At least until the Brawn of Ross manages to think of a way cars can drive very close together and still be mad fast.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 22, 2017, 02:05:38 AM
It begins with a 'G' and ends 'round effects'....  That and a much, much, much smaller & simpler front wing.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 22, 2017, 03:09:34 AM
Quote from: Penfold on March 22, 2017, 02:05:38 AM
It begins with a 'G' and ends 'round effects'....  That and a much, much, much smaller & simpler front wing.

I'm sorry, it seems like you almost spelled out "ground effects". Could that really be?
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 22, 2017, 03:50:37 AM
I'll take a look and get back to you.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 22, 2017, 09:38:42 AM
Sebastian Vettel is hoping that his new car, Gina, can help him to a new world title.

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/03/22/vettel-hoping-to-drive-gina-to-the-f1-world-title/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 23, 2017, 03:07:13 AM
I'd certainly welcome someone besides Merc topping the table this year, though I'd rather it was Dan/Max/Kimi than no. 5 for Seb.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 24, 2017, 02:13:25 AM
Quali may be wet.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/23/rain-may-affect-first-qualifying-2017/

For once, I hope it isn't. Let's have a clean run for this weekend. Go rain at another round of the championship, please!
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 24, 2017, 03:31:04 AM
That would be a shame.  I like my Aus GP bathed in sunlight (plus it would be good to see true running pace as you say).
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on March 24, 2017, 08:06:38 AM
But running pace at Australia often doesn't translate very well to the other races anyway, and a rainy qualifying session followed by a dry race would make Sunday even crazier than it usually is here.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 24, 2017, 08:35:54 AM
Re: Melbourne not being a great yardstick.  You wouldn't know from my previous comment but I was thinking that very thing yesterday afternoon - and also that the development race this year should yield some nice fat gains.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 24, 2017, 08:18:48 PM
Wehrlein has withdrawn from the Australian GP. He is to be replaced by Antonio Giovinazzi. Fitness concerns and shite.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 25, 2017, 08:39:19 AM
... and wasn't Giovinazzi impressive in qualifying.  Straight into the car and only a couple of tenths behind Ericsson.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 25, 2017, 08:56:39 AM
Indeed. Very impressive. Keep in mind though that Giovinazzi did 2 days of testing at Barcelona. He should know the car OK, but he has never driven the Melbourne circuit. He's a total rookie in the truest of words.

Pascal Wehrlein dropping out of an F1 contest for "fitness concerns" is arguably the worst cause of withdrawal ever. Why did he even bother showing up? The FIA cleared him. Maybe he's just not "feeling up to it". God damnit. I'd prefer to see Giovinazzi take that seat for the season. If we're judging from Giovinazzi's pace in quali in a brand new car with less than 20 laps of experience of the circuit, he is easily fast enough for F1. He'd definitely be able to take the battle to Ericsson and nobody would be surprised if the rookie ended up scoring the best results.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 27, 2017, 01:59:00 AM
Gio certainly didn't do his stock any harm with that performance; just a pity Son of Eric ground to a halt when a top ten was on the cards.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 27, 2017, 04:59:33 AM
Allow me to question something. If Pascal isn't "fit enough" for Australia some 2 months after his incident at Race of Champions, why would he be fit for China just 14 days later? China is way more aggressive, higher speeds and faster corners. If he is fit enough for China, then clearly something other than fitness is the real reason he pulled out of this race. Something is fishy.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 27, 2017, 05:14:16 AM
I know he cited fitness as reason for withdrawal, but I do wonder if hammering round Albert Park in practice didn't simply cause his back to act up.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 27, 2017, 05:54:05 AM
In Barcelona pre-season practice, he only ran half days. Ericsson had to fill in during afternoons every day.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 27, 2017, 06:34:45 AM
Didn't know that.  Wonder if that was due to him being knackered after half a day's running or from back pain/discomfort.  Either way, makes it less of a surprise that he couldn't manage a full race weekend... and more of a surprise that Sauber believed he could.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 28, 2017, 12:39:17 AM
He was scheduled to run 2 days, and Marcus 2 days, at the second pre-season test. He ran 3 mornings, Ericsson ran 3 afternoons and one full day.

Giovinazzi had 2 days in the car in the first pre-season test. Let's say if he doesn't get a seat at Sauber, he will be driving an F1 car somewhere else before too long. Heck, I wouldn't mind Ferrari promoting him directly for 2018 if Kimi doesn't stay on for yet another year. An Italian in a competitive Ferrari, wouldn't that be something?
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 29, 2017, 01:35:41 AM
It's been over thirty years since the last time it happened so we're overdue.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 30, 2017, 12:46:34 AM
Renault expected to provide a decent power boost for Montreal: Bull http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128698/red-bull-waiting-on-canada-renault-upgrade

I was disappointed at Red Bull's pace compared to Merc/Ferrari in Aus (although stronger in race than quali), but hopefully upgrades from Renault and tweaks to their chassis/aero can close the gap and provide us that rarely observed beast: the three-way constructors fight.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 30, 2017, 01:46:02 AM
When did we last have 3 teams winning races on merit in a season?

In 2016, only Mercedes won on merit. Red Bull inherited wins at Spain and Malaysia.
In 2015, Ferrari won on merit in Singapore, arguably Malaysia too. Mercedes won the rest
In 2014, (and I'm now using Wikipedia to remember), Red Bull won in Hungary on merit and inherited 1-2 other races. Mercedes for the rest.
In 2013, the last year of the old engine formula, we might have had 3 winners. Lotus won on merit in Australia, Ferrari on merit in Spain, Red Bull on merit almost everywhere, and then a couple Mercedes wins too.
In 2012, we had that crazy 7 winners in 7 races but that was down to Pirelli producing tyres nobody understood. Button, Alonso, Rosberg, Vettel, MALDONADO, Webber, Hamilton. The first 5 races were won by 5 different teams!! Near the end of the season, we also had a win from a 6th team (Lotus) with Kimi Raikkonen.

So yeah, it's been a while.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 30, 2017, 04:47:15 AM
Basing it off WCC points and the ability to win races throughout a season (as opposed to snatching one through good fortune or because your car happens to be nifty round a particular type of track), then 2012 definitely qualifies as a three-way battle, and I'd say 2010 as well.  Scroll back a bit through Wiki... 2003 also seems a likely candidate with Ferrari, Williams & McLaren close right to the end.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on March 30, 2017, 08:08:08 AM
The Renault was also very good that season and Alonso picked up a win. They were a little off of the other three, but they also had the weakest second driver in Trulli.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on March 30, 2017, 11:32:29 AM
See, DRS is great. We don't have Trulli trains. Man, he could qualify a car! He just couldn't race it.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on March 31, 2017, 03:27:51 AM
For me, the cure is worse than the disease....
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 03, 2017, 02:00:58 AM
Quote from: Chrill on March 27, 2017, 04:59:33 AM
Allow me to question something. If Pascal isn't "fit enough" for Australia some 2 months after his incident at Race of Champions, why would he be fit for China just 14 days later? China is way more aggressive, higher speeds and faster corners....

Seems this Chrill chap was onto something: http://www.planetf1.com/news/giovinazzi-could-race-in-china-report/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 03, 2017, 07:51:29 AM
Quote from: Penfold on April 03, 2017, 02:00:58 AM
Seems this Chrill chap was onto something: http://www.planetf1.com/news/giovinazzi-could-race-in-china-report/
Even a broken watch is right two times a day.

Is that a saying in English? It's a saying in Swedish. Now, it's a saying in English too.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on April 03, 2017, 08:51:24 AM
It's a saying in English. But we usually say clock instead of watch.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 04, 2017, 12:50:31 AM
... and I'd say 'twice' instead of 'two times'.

Gio confirmed for Shanghai: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/03/giovinazzi-will-replace-wehrlein-china/

Sounds v. likely Wehrlein will also sit out Bahrain.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 04, 2017, 01:09:12 AM
See, I was right! Giovinazzi may very well go on to humble poor Ericsson. This puts my dear Swede in a difficult position. If he beats Gio in China, everyone will say "yeah but he's got several years of experience, and the Italian is new". If he loses to Giovinazzi, people will call for Ericsson to retire effective immediately. Oh boy. :P
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 07, 2017, 01:18:48 AM
At some point they'll get to put in some laps of Shanghai and we'll see who's quicker, but as it stands poor visibility grounded the medical helicopter for pretty much all of P1 and for the same reason there's been zero running in P2.  Tomorrow's practice will be busy.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 07, 2017, 01:25:05 AM
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/poor-weather-forces-abandonment-of-fp2-890500/

Indeed. No FP2 running at all. So that obviously means FP3 will be crazy and some people will be getting their setup wrong. We might even see the front runners doing multiple runs in Q1 and Q2 to fine-tune their setups.

This is a bit exciting though. Get it right and you're good to go. Get it wrong and you'll be losing many tenths per lap.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 07, 2017, 01:33:28 AM
Exactly, and not much opportunity to copy off your teammate if you don't nail the setup yourself.  Could well throw up some surprises for qualifying - assuming the weather clears between now and then.  Rain sweeping in for Sunday, though I'd rather it didn't bother....
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 07, 2017, 02:11:04 AM
This is where experience will pay off. Massa, Kimi, Alonso. These people can benefit from having driven F1 cars for a loooong time.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 07, 2017, 02:34:30 AM
Imagine if Wehrlein had been picked up for Mercedes, and then this would have happened. Who would have replaced him? Bottas would be tied down to Wililams, Alonso is stuck at McLaren. Would Mercedes have drafted Felipe Massa? Would they have gone to someone like Paul di Resta, Gary Paffett, maybe even Adrian Sutil?
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 07, 2017, 04:19:36 AM
I would say Massa and then di Resta, at least for China & Bahrain - I don't think anyone would've been available to jump in on Saturday morning in Melbourne.

Quote from: Chrill on April 07, 2017, 02:11:04 AM
This is where experience will pay off. Massa, Kimi, Alonso. These people can benefit from having driven F1 cars for a loooong time.
Too bad that the McLaren is not yet up to pace and that recent offerings by Williams have been quite awful in the wet.  Thinking I may plump for Ricciardo if rain is due, or perhaps Hulk, or Sainz, or somebody else.  Yes, definitely one of those guys or somebody else.  Good to have that settled.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 07, 2017, 04:24:32 AM
So yeah eh uhm we might have a SATURDAY Grand Prix for the first time in, perhaps, ever?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-teams-to-discuss-moving-chinese-gp-to-saturday-890553/

Friday washed away completely and Sunday risks being the same. They can't delay the GP to Monday because freight needs to leave for Bahrain. So, perhaps the race will be moved to Saturday to ensure it can run at all. If they do run the race on Sunday, chances are there will be no race at all.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 07, 2017, 04:33:46 AM
Practice, qualifying, and the race all on one day - lucky spectators!

Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 07, 2017, 04:53:54 AM
Although race apparently now to remain on Sunday.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/no-change-to-chinese-grand-prix-schedule-890609/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 07, 2017, 06:36:49 AM
Plenty of the wet stuff forecast for Sunday so fingers crossed we get a race rather than a safety car procession.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 09, 2017, 08:59:42 AM
We did get a race. Even though Vettel was extremely unlucky with the timing of the safety car, he finished close to Hamilton. Great stuff. The Mercedes and Ferrari cars are very evenly matched so far. Really looking forward to Bahrain. It's impossible to tell who is ahead at the moment. 1 point separates Mercedes and Ferrari, nothing separates Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel. I believe Hamilton leads the world championship thanks to securing more Pole Positions. They are tied on points, wins, podiums, etc.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 12, 2017, 12:15:42 AM
Wehrlein back for Bahrain: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/11/wehrlein-will-return-action-bahrain/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 12, 2017, 12:17:54 AM
Surprises me. How come two months was not enough to recover, but 7 days is enough? In addition, the Bahrain GP is a hot one. It's an exhausting one. It's not ideal for a return if your fitness levels are low.

This just makes me think how much truth there is to the "low fitness" statement.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 12, 2017, 04:20:33 AM
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/12/alonso-will-miss-monaco-grand-prix-race-indianapolis-500/

what.

What??

WHAT?!?!?

Fernando Alonso is skipping the Monaco Grand Prix in order to compete in the Indy 500. Yes. This is not April 1st, is it? It must be. Isn't it? Huh?
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 12, 2017, 04:29:33 AM
Beat me to the posting.  Anything that keeps Alonso happy(er) during this, erm, disappointing period of McLaren's existence must be worth it.  Button to replace, one assumes.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 12, 2017, 07:29:27 AM
Button would be the logical choice, and he is definitely keeping fit. Would he be keen on a one-off though? I think yes. These new cars will be cool to drive in Monaco.

Then again, he runs the risk of being obliterated by Vandoorne since he hasn't driven the car at all and Vandoorne will have raced it for a while by then.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on April 12, 2017, 08:18:47 AM
There's really no pressure though. Anyone with any sense would see that Vandoorne should have an advantage, so if Button is anywhere close, it's fine.

The reaction I've seen to Alonso is probably 90% positive. But I love the people complaining about this being bad for F1 or proof that Alonso doesn't care about F1 or just generally whining about whatever pops into their head. Can't you just enjoy something that is legitimately shocking and that is going to be fun? Then there's the contingent saying that IndyCar is only for those who aren't good enough for F1, as if there were more than 20 seats in F1 and many didn't rest almost solely on the driver bringing significant funding. The very top of the F1 field is stronger, but I think IndyCar's depth these days compares well with F1, actually.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 12, 2017, 01:58:24 PM
The fact Rossi won the Indy 500 is proof enough that anyone can win the Indy 500. It shouldn't be that random. I expect Alonso to be up there, and if fortune favours him he may well pop open a bottle of milk at the end.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on April 12, 2017, 09:55:20 PM
I think it's an overstatement to say that anyone can win. Rossi was impressive throughout the month (well, only two weeks these days), had a good car, and ultimately only won through fuel mileage. Almost anyone with a good car and a good strategist can win. That said, Chilton had a good car, for example, and never had a chance of winning because he didn't take to speedway racing. Bourdais is a great driver and has never been able to really compete on speedways. Alonso is undoubtedly a great driver, one of the best in the world, but it all depends on how he adapts to speedway racing. If he can run as well as Rossi did throughout practice and run like he did in the race, that will be good.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 13, 2017, 05:41:37 AM
Fascinating to see how he does.  I can't understand any racing fan not being excited by popping an F1 legend into another series.


Bahrain race-day weather expected to be cooler than normal: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/13/race-night-weather-forecast-offers-hope-mercedes/

Widely assumed this will be a positive for the Merc boys.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 13, 2017, 06:43:01 AM
oh weather gods. Please be kind to the Italians. I was hoping for a super hot race and a Ferrari 1-2.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on April 13, 2017, 10:27:58 AM
I don't participate in rating the drivers after every GP, but I decided to try to rank the drivers from best to worst.

1) Alonso
2) Vettel
3) Hamilton
4) Verstappen
----------
5) Ricciardo
6) Perez
7) Hulkenberg
----------
8) Sainz
9) Bottas
10) Raikkonen
11) Grosjean
----------
12) Vandoorne
13) Ocon
14) Wehrlein
----------
15) Kvyat
16) Massa
17) Ericsson
18) Magnussen
19) Palmer
20) Stroll

These are separated into tiers. The top tier are the absolute best all-around drivers. Alonso, Vettel, and Hamilton have proven it over years. Verstappen has shown too much natural talent to put him anywhere else, but he's not as polished as those three. The next three are guys that I think are really good and could compete for the championship if put in the right position, but realistically would lose to the top-tier drivers most of the time in an even fight. The Sainz tier could compete for wins in the right situation, but I'm not sure about a championship (Kimi being only a part of the driver he once was.) Vandoorne, Ocon, and Wehrlein could end up higher, but it's just not clear at this point, so they get their own tier. The final tier are guys that I don't think could realistically compete for wins. I still think they're all quite good drivers, though, and could have long and successful careers outside of F1 (same comments for Massa as for Kimi.)
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 13, 2017, 12:01:33 PM
While in general I agree with those ratings, I would like to rate some of these differently. Which I will do. Later. When I can be bothered.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 14, 2017, 04:25:19 AM
As expected, Button will hop into Alonso's car for Monaco: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/14/button-confirmed-alonsos-replacement-monaco/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 16, 2017, 02:58:00 PM
Oh what a race we were treated to in Bahrain tonight. Great stuff. I love how respectful Hamilton is of both Vettel and Bottas. He really appears as though he'd prefer to be P2 behind Vettel than P1 over Rosberg. He is enjoying these battles, although this race wasn't his greatest.

Without the SC, Ferrari would surely have won. With the SC, Hamilton had a shot and messed it up. He would have exited behind Ricciardo no matter what, so trying to slow him down did him no good. Ferrari were lucky that Bottas had a slow stop. Great stuff from Vettel to keep Bottas behind on restart. Honorable mention to Perez for reaching P7 from a lowly 18th on the grid.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 17, 2017, 02:36:44 AM
I'm loving this season.  Obviously the fight between Ferrari & Merc (well, Seb & Hammy) is a joy to behold after the last few seasons of silver supremacy; but more generally I'm just enjoying these fabulous cars from an aesthetic standpoint, their ability to follow each other without eating the tyres (and so work up to an overtake), and the fact that DRS isn't the all-powerful beast of recent years.  The only negative for me is to see Alonso forced into heroic battles with the Palmers, Kvyats, and Ericssons of this world because Honda has yet to build a half-decent engine.

Edit: Carlos Sainz - 'Muppet of the race' award for ploughing into Stroll and then blaming it all on Lance because he had the temerity to turn into the corner!  Carlos will not be getting a good score out of ten... I'm thinking somewhere below three.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 25, 2017, 01:19:25 AM
Oh, thank God, the FIA will not be tinkering with DRS to further aid overtaking: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/24/no-drs-changes-planned-2017/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 25, 2017, 05:58:28 AM
Very good. DRS is actually pretty well balanced. Or so it has appeared in these first 3 races.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 27, 2017, 11:59:33 PM
Sochi will be pleasantly warm this weekend, which hopefully will aid the red cars on what is regarded as a Merc. track: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/27/2017-russian-grand-prix-weather/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 28, 2017, 12:33:52 AM
I dont mind that. I am half expecting a Merc 1-2, but the warmer it gets the better chance Vettel will have of making it up there. Kimi is probably finishing 4th. He's very likely to. Unless of course he races like himself. In which case maybe P5-7 is more likely.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 28, 2017, 12:49:12 AM
People expecting a one-stopper but warmer track temps might cause a few problems and give us that added bit of intrigue.  I'm thinking Seb manages to grab second ahead of Val and Max relegates Kimi to P5.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 28, 2017, 06:18:43 AM
If we are borderline one stopping, Ferrari will one stop and Mercedes will do just like in Bahrain, that is two stopping and trying to catch the prancing horse. Who knows, maybe its a Vettel weekend once more?
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 28, 2017, 08:01:23 AM
If FP2 was anything to go on, their long runs seem about the same (a little less deterioration for Ferrari) but their one lap pace differs. Mercedes just couldn't switch on the ultra softs. Ferrari were .7 of a second faster than Lewis and Bottas.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 28, 2017, 09:54:02 AM
Was great to see, but I'm sure Merc will have it all dialled in by quali.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on April 29, 2017, 04:26:02 AM
FP3 and still looking good for Ferrari so I expect to see Lewis on pole....
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on April 29, 2017, 08:32:35 AM
Hah. Double Ferrari, first time since 2008. Loving it
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on May 03, 2017, 10:29:39 AM
Kind of off topic, but we've had an IndyCar topic in the past and it couldn't sustain itself. Plus it's Alonso anyway.

Alonso got his first laps at Indy today, getting over 220mph relatively quickly. I love the helmet. The livery is a throwback, obviously, and is nice. I would've liked a bit more detail, something between the F1 car and this. But whatever.

(https://minardif1.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.racer.com%2Fimages%2F2017%2FApril_2%2FIndyCar%2Flevitt-0517-ims_01749_copy.jpg&hash=cd43126d9ec3492187b86d5d0495f21fb8a165b0)
(https://minardif1.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.racer.com%2Fimages%2F2017%2FMay_1%2FIndyCar%2FALonso_car_IMS_photo.jpg&hash=8d6f1a275ae59af7dbefbf1f1fd8043be2ff14f2)
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on May 04, 2017, 02:32:54 AM
Liking the orange; as you say it would benefit from a spot of finessing but I do just love that colour.  Oh, and the helmet is gorgeous... simple but striking.

Seems like Alonso had a solid start to proceedings.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on May 14, 2017, 03:51:29 AM
Pity Seb fluffed the final chicane, would've liked him to grab pole.  Still, all set up nicely for a great battle between the Mercs & Ferraris.

Alonso qualifying seventh, who saw that coming... and more importantly, was it his best ever lap?  Talking of laps, I wonder how many his car will last....
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on May 14, 2017, 02:36:22 PM
I like that race. Sure, the lack of a Ferrari victory saddens me. Still, the racing was good. Vettel on Bottas was scary. Alonso actually passed cars on straights. Ericsson had some insanely bad luck, exiting the pits just meters behind Vandoorne who then caused a VSC which ruined his day. Despite it, Ericsson finished P11. Without it, I think Sauber could have had two cars in the points today.

Wehrlein was great, finishing P7 (P8 with the penalty). Hamilton did the very maximum of what his car was capable of. You could hear his breathing on the team radio, he was really exhausted. That never happened with the old cars.

I'm glad the updates introduced in Spain didn't change the pecking order too much. I feared Mercedes would speed away from Ferrari but they did not. It's still really close.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on May 15, 2017, 02:08:26 AM
What he (you) said.

Next up the annual beauty parade around the streets of Monte Carlo.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on May 16, 2017, 12:17:33 AM
Here's a list of all drivers scoring points in all 5 races this year:

Sebastian Vettel
Lewis Hamilton
Sergio Perez
Esteban Ocon

Them Indian forces are forces to be reckoned with.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on May 16, 2017, 06:07:09 AM
Yep, FI running well again, also glad to see Ocon living up to (my) expectations after last year.


Stroll's post-race comments: "It was not a great race. I have had better ones and I just found it frustrating...."

Better ones? Plural? In F1? Has he?
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on May 16, 2017, 07:37:38 AM
Quote from: Penfold on May 16, 2017, 06:07:09 AM
Stroll's post-race comments: "It was not a great race. I have had better ones and I just found it frustrating...."

Better ones? Plural? In F1? Has he?
I'd label Australia a better race. He retired early. He should have done so in Spain.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on May 20, 2017, 07:00:32 AM
With the increased width of 2017 cars, and narrow streets of Monaco, won't that make some of the tight corners even tighter? I'm thinking exit onto main straight for example. They should be more difficult because you need to fit more car into there.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on May 21, 2017, 08:56:51 AM
Suppose so, but it's just back to how it was when I started watching F1 and I don't recall Senna et al struggling to navigate.


I see Alonso made it through to the pole shootout; and that Bourdais suffered a pretty nasty smash.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on May 21, 2017, 04:58:27 PM
Alonso ultimately qualified fifth, making him only the third highest driver with F1 experience behind his teammates Rossi and Sato. Meanwhile, Dixon won the pole at over 232 mph, the fastest qualifying speed since 1996.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on May 21, 2017, 11:13:16 PM
How common is it for a rookie to reach the Top 9, let alone finish that shootout in the second row?

EDIT: I went for the Googles. In 2013, Carlos Muñoz qualified 2nd as rookie. That is the most recent visit to the front two rows for a rookie.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on May 22, 2017, 06:23:14 AM
Munoz also finished second. He finished second again last season and probably should have won. Now he's stuck with Foyt though, so he has been nowhere this month. I still think he might do well in the race.

What really holds back rookies is that they're rarely with the top teams. No rookies have run for Penske recently. Chilton was with Ganassi last season, but he's generally underwhelming. Munoz was the last rookie with Andretti other than Rossi, who qualified well, just not in the fast nine.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on May 26, 2017, 02:29:41 AM
Good run for Button in FP2, just a few hundredths off Stoffel's best.  The Van Door needs to find some extra pace for quali lest he be bested by some retired bloke who's had just a few hours in the car.

Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on May 28, 2017, 03:04:38 AM
Kimi!  Now go on and win the race.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on May 29, 2017, 08:27:14 AM
So Button peed in Alonso's seat, flipped Wehrlein up on the side (impressive!) and then drove off with three wheels. Well done.

Button has a grid penalty for his next race. I assume it will not be served.

Ericsson crashed out when overtaking the safety car, but then again... no, no defending that. Worst move of his career, perhaps. Awful. It was a great race up to that point, pitting and emerging ahead of both Ocon and Wehrlein and Button.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on May 30, 2017, 04:29:16 AM
Toffee Van Door didn't exactly cover himself in glory either, and nor did Perez....
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on May 30, 2017, 08:17:50 AM
To sum it up, the tougher cars are actually tough to drive in Monaco. Not even Lewis managed it all too well, eventually finishing behind even a Toro Rosso!
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on June 01, 2017, 02:36:40 AM
I was impressed by just how poor old Hammy was on Saturday.

Baku has some narrow sections to look forward to....
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on June 01, 2017, 08:00:12 AM
After Hamilton made his crack about how IndyCar drivers must not be very good if Alonso could qualify 5th, Tony Kanaan responded at the post-race banquet by saying that Hamilton raced against one car last year and finished second.  :D
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on June 02, 2017, 12:07:48 AM
Quote from: Matt on June 01, 2017, 08:00:12 AM
After Hamilton made his crack about how IndyCar drivers must not be very good if Alonso could qualify 5th, Tony Kanaan responded at the post-race banquet by saying that Hamilton raced against one car last year and finished second.  :D
BOOM!

While I believe that Hamilton does carry a bit of a valid point, the fact is Alonso drove one of the best cars (if not the best. It won!!). Still, Alonso is not any old F1 driver either. Would Hamilton have qualified P5? Maybe not. Does Hamilton have the guts to attempt the Indy? Surely not.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on June 06, 2017, 12:34:41 PM
Kubica completed 115 laps of testing in the 2012-spec Renault today. Now rumors are flying that he could replace Palmer. I find it hard to believe, but there are some things beyond just the testing laps today that suggest it could be possible. First, if I'm not mistaken, he just returned to circuit racing in the last year, maybe less? Since then he has been testing progressively faster cars, with Formula E, WEC prototypes, and now F1. He signed for a WEC team but dropped out before the first race, and tested for Formula E but hasn't pursued it. Either he felt he still wasn't physically able, which doesn't make a lot of sense given that he now tested an F1 car, or he thought he had a better opportunity. Like F1.

I still feel like it's a longshot, but Kubica was one of the best drivers of his generation and it would be great to see him return. It's easy to forget about him given how many years it's been since his injury, but he's a top driver.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on June 07, 2017, 01:13:40 AM
I just came to discuss Kubica. Matt beat me to it. Noice!

Yeah, 115 laps in a "contemporary"ish F1 car is not bad at all. Sure, the 2017 cars are even more powerful and even more demanding. Still, he completed 115 laps. That's a double race distance. Like Matt said, Kubica has gone from F3 to Formula E to WEC to F1. That's not something he did for fun alone. He's clearly testing his limits. The Valencia circuit contains both fast sweeping and slow tight corners, in both directions. Clearly he navigated them over 100 times in one day.

Palmer being removed has been touted as a possibility for a while now. Kubica in? It would be absurd. I mean, he's old now. He hasn't raced in 6 or something years. That is a VERY long time. Would he just become a new Maldonado? It's possible. Would he still be able to compete on every circuit? It's not necessarily the case.

But come on, we needs us some Bobby K in F1!
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on June 07, 2017, 07:09:03 AM
He's not actually that old though. He's 32. That's the older part of the grid, but there's still plenty of good years left for drivers who are 32. Hamilton is 32.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on June 07, 2017, 07:33:09 AM
And Hamilton is on his penultimate season ;D
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on June 08, 2017, 06:24:15 AM
Could be a few showers knocking around on Sunday: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/06/08/rain-forecast-for-race-day-in-montreal/

Edit: Rain got held up and will now arrive on Monday.  Hot & sunny for the race... should be good for Ferrari.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on June 16, 2017, 05:43:08 AM
Entertaining race in Canada.  Pity that Max retired, and also that he clipped Vettel... made it all too easy for Mercedes.  Loved the Force India inter-team battle, and of course Seb's recovery drive - in particular his ballsy move on Ocon.

Must get round to doing the driver ratings whilst race is still fairly fresh in my mind.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on June 21, 2017, 03:52:32 AM
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12478/10921988/monisha-kaltenborn-leaves-sauber-as-swiss-teams-struggles-continue
Monisha Kaltenborn leaves Sauber, with no apparent team principal lined up to replace her. We'll see who is in charge in Azerbaijan, and certainly who comes to lead the team over the course of this season. Is Honda switching its allegiance to Sauber proper? Are they becoming the new Japanese works team? Or, is the Longbow Finance money gone and Monisha simply knows when its time to go?

EDIT: Or is there truth to a rumour I am hearing of Longbow wanting to give Ericsson number 1 status in the team over Wehrlein, and Kaltenborn disagreeing with it? She is apparently not on board with the Honda engine decision either, so she might simply be leaving (or maybe is forced to leave) due to her ideas not aligning with the team.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on June 25, 2017, 01:35:00 PM
What a race in Baku. Wow. Lance Stroll scored a podium, and was only one TENTH from securing P2. So close.

Bottas fought from one lap down to take P2. Hamilton brake tested Vettel, Vettel then deliberately crashed into Hamilton. In my opinion, strange that both men were permitted to finish the race. Vettel should definitely have been disqualified, and Hamilton perhaps too.

Shame to see Massa DNFing when genuinely in the run for victory. I think he could have given Ricciardo a run for it, had he not retired. I think Kimi would have won it, had he not got damaged by that Force India squabble. Also, Force India messed up their chances for a double podium today. Shame, all of it. The only ones who stayed out of trouble all race was Stroll, Magnussen, Alonso, and the two Saubers.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on June 26, 2017, 01:57:55 AM
Ricciardo's divebomb on 2-3 cars into turn 1 at restart (what was that, two Williams cars and one more?) was amazing. Possible contender for overtake of the season.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on June 30, 2017, 02:59:54 AM
Only because you didn't see Vettel's move on Ocon in Montreal.  Not only was it far ballsier given what a crash could mean in the Championship fight, but there was a fantastic multi-lap build up to it as well.

As for Baku... tremendous.  Would've enjoyed it even more if either my no. 2 (Massa) or weekly pick (Perez) had made it to the finish.

Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on June 30, 2017, 05:14:25 AM
I watched the highlights for Canada. The Vettel on Ocon overtake was great indeed. :)
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on July 11, 2017, 02:57:28 AM
Palmer tweaks driving style to be more like the Hulk's: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130652/palmer-hulkenberg-style-led-to-breakthrough
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on July 11, 2017, 05:49:20 AM
Palmer finished 11th. Hardly a breakthrough...
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on July 11, 2017, 06:19:26 AM
... take it as a mark of just how terrible he's been up to this point.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on July 15, 2017, 01:45:46 AM
Five-place grid penalty for Bottas at Silverstone - same gearbox issue that befell Hammy in Austria.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on July 15, 2017, 02:51:03 AM
Which means the podium will be VET, HAM, RIC, this week. Hamilton qualifies on pole but Vettel passes him ontrac. Raikkonen qualifies 3rd, Verstappen 4th, Ricciardo 5th. Verstappen suffers a DNF, and Ricciardo passes Raikkonen. Bottas, qualifying 2nd and starting 7th, fights up to P4 behind the top 3 guys. Raikkonen finishes 5th.

Do we even need to watch the race Sunday?
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on July 15, 2017, 04:11:44 AM
Not really, I'll just grab some beer and read your summary a few dozen times....

Edit: Five-place drop for Dan Ricci as well.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on July 15, 2017, 05:47:54 AM
Right, I'll revise my podium then. Bottas might actually get back up there in P3. Or Kimi. So there's a fight for that then. Watch Sunday.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on July 15, 2017, 04:33:05 PM
Sainz to replace Palmer in Hungary. Yeah. Sainz to Renault midseason. We'll see if this is true. Gasly brought up to Toro Rosso for Hungary then.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on July 15, 2017, 06:29:53 PM
Seems to foreclose Kubica returning. And Horner just said in that article I posted this week (last week?) that it would make no sense to send Sainz to Renault because they're not better than STR.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on July 16, 2017, 12:57:56 AM
Palmer getting the old heave-ho mid-season not exactly a shocker, but Sainz replacing him... wow, did not see that coming.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on July 16, 2017, 02:22:05 AM
Well none of this is confirmed. German media reporting it. They usually have a good eye on Mercedes but I've never associated them with Renault or Red Bull leaks.

And in regards to Red Bull "sending" Sainz to Toro Rosso: The rumour claims that Renault is simply buying Sainz from Red Bull for some 8 million Euros.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on July 16, 2017, 03:31:26 AM
Oh yes, it's just a media story right now, but the Sainz angle is a surprise to me.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on July 17, 2017, 02:51:58 AM
http://www.planetf1.com/news/renault-deny-sainz-rumours/
Renault issues a firm denial that Sainz will race for them in Hungary. Or, Arbiteboul does.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on July 29, 2017, 12:43:29 AM
Five-place grid penalty for Hulk courtesy of gearbox change.  So... will he still be further up the grid than Palmer?
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on July 29, 2017, 04:14:03 AM
Paul di resta looks set to replace an unwell Felipe Massa.

Massa was taken to hospital yesterday and cleared. He is at the circuit now but an onsite witness claims Williams was changing seats and pedals about 20 minutes ago, just as FP3 was coming to a halt. We'll see if he lies.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on July 29, 2017, 04:22:59 AM
... he was only a tenth ahead of Stroll in FP3, he must be ill.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on July 29, 2017, 05:40:45 AM
Well Paul is confirmed for the rest of the weekend.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on July 30, 2017, 01:57:15 AM
Thought that was a good showing in quali given the circumstances.  Also a great session in general: no Merc on front row, Red Bulls more competitive after upgrades, McLaren showing that their chassis really ain't half bad, Kvyat collecting yet more penalty points, Palmer being miles off Hulk... most enjoyable.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on July 30, 2017, 02:18:42 PM
Medicore race. Annoyed that Mercedes so clearly backs Hamilton this "early" in campaign. Impressed to see Hamilton returning the podium position to Bottas the way he did. Fair. Here's hoping he doesnt lose the championship by less than three points...

Alonso fastest lap, P6. Nice one, as expected.

Palmer P12. One worse than the P11 I expected. He isn't scoring points. Oh boy.

First points of the season to Vandoorne despite a miss (his own) in the pits costing many seconds.

Vettel held Raikkonen up but Raikkonen never attacked. Surprising, but I suppose he knows he is to be a number 2 driver if he wants to stay on for 2018.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on July 31, 2017, 01:57:24 AM
Not forgetting Alonso's great move on Sainz - someone's getting a ten for this race (besides Palmer, obviously).

Bottas had his chance to attack Kimi, wasn't exactly all over him, so sensible for Merc to give Hammy a shot - on the understanding that drivers swap back if he can't make the pass.

Great Ferrari no. 2 drive from Kimi... exactly the sort of performance that earns contract extensions.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on August 25, 2017, 03:31:02 AM
Tragedy: Van Door to start from back of grid (or in pit lane) courtesy of all new Honda bits in back of car.  And I was expecting such great things from him/his car this weekend.

Weather update: May or may not be a wet race; could be sunny... could be cloudy.  Trust this helps with choosing your weekly pick.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on August 27, 2017, 03:46:20 AM
Four engine/gearbox grid penalties for Spa... injects such excitement into the sport.

Ericsson: Five-place grid penalty for new gearbox
Wehrlein: Five-place grid penalty for new gearbox
Kvyat: 20-place grid penalty for excessive power unit components
Vandoorne: 60-place grid penalty for excessive power unit components and five place grid penalty for new gearbox


Quite likely Vettel will need to run a fifth, penalty-inducing engine at some point this year.  That's the way for titles to be decided, don't know how I managed to enjoy F1 for so many years without these grid drops.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on September 01, 2017, 06:53:59 AM
And four engine/gearbox grid penalties for Monza.

Ricciardo: 20 places for engine, turbo, and MGU-H.
Verstappen: 15 places for engine and MGU-H.
Sainz: 10 places for an extra MGU-H.
Alonso: 35 places for changing everything.

Marvellous.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on September 03, 2017, 01:48:01 AM
... plus a grid penalty for each of the Renault guys.

Quite some qualifying.  Superb by Hamilton, great showing by the Red Bulls, and of course hats off to Stroll for the margin he had over Massa - though what the hell is the Williams doing being fast in the wet?  Also a top effort by Ocon, I'm sure Perez is delighted for him....  Hoping Ferrari will be quick in the dry, though unfortunately for them Stroll's & Ocon's motors tend to be pretty nifty in a straight line.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on September 03, 2017, 02:10:44 PM
Stroll impressed me in quali. He can clearly drive a car in wet conditions and that is usually the sign of a great driver. Perhaps he isn't all that bad after all.

The race disappointed me. Hamilton obviously won easily, Bottas easily claimed P2. Vettel struggled to even reach a podium. Ricciardo drove a fantastic race. Very dull race, I turned it off to go play Grand Theft Auto.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on September 17, 2017, 09:17:49 AM
That crash was Vettel's fault. Not sure where they thought Max was supposed to go, Vettel just came over like no one was there. But Ferrari is incapable of accepting their own mistakes, as always.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on September 17, 2017, 12:38:32 PM
Yup. I blame Vettel too. Absurd behaviour by a world championship contender during a rainy night street race where nearest rival is p6 on grid. He simply didn't realize Raikkonen would make such a brilliant start, so he assumed Verstappen was squeezeable.

Masterful drive from Hamilton, painfully enough.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on September 19, 2017, 04:21:03 AM
Vettel clearly gunning for my 'F1 Idiot of the Year' award.  Mind you, Kvyat's going to take some catching.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on September 20, 2017, 11:32:31 AM
Hmm.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on September 21, 2017, 04:09:16 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on September 26, 2017, 03:50:14 AM
Force India to have aero upgrades and latest-spec Merc engines for Malaysia: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132026/force-india-set-for-aero-and-engine-upgrades
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on September 26, 2017, 05:15:01 AM
Aaand it's confirmed. Gasly for Toro Rosso for "the next Grands Prix"

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/09/26/kvyat-loses-seat-gasly-malaysian-grand-prix/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on September 26, 2017, 06:51:35 AM
Also announced Gasly has decided on a permanent number, 10, to be his. This was most recently used by Kobayashi 3 years ago which means it was now vacated.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on September 28, 2017, 12:43:56 AM
Seems it will be the next two races for Gassy with Kvyat back in place for the U.S. GP: http://en.f1i.com/news/280746-sponsor-insists-kvyat-benched-two-races.html
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on September 28, 2017, 02:00:29 AM
Quite likely yes. USA clashes with Super Formula finale.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 02, 2017, 01:34:00 AM
Well Ferrari is really trying hard to make sure Lewis Hamilton is crowned champion before Abu Dhabi. Hmm.

A DNS for Raikkonen and a P20 on the grid for Vettel. Not nice.

Verstappen dominated Hamilton. Ferrari had dominated Red Bull all weekend. This would have been the most certain 1-2 Ferrari finish of the year (except Singapore, which also should have been a Ferrari 1-2). Instead, the total points haul over these 2 races is 12 points. Shite.

Also, Stroll and Vettel colliding after the race. I could see that leading to a gearbox change, for which Vettel would indeed be demoted on the grid for Japan too.

The only encouragement is that, even though Hamilton has finished 1st and 2nd in these two races, he hasn't REALLY had the pace to do so. The Mercedes has looked weak in Singapore and in Malaysia.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 02, 2017, 03:55:23 AM
I'm keeping everything crossed that Ferrari & Red Bull can have them at Suzuka; I'll also take a Mercedes mechanical failure as a means to narrowing Hammy's lead.

Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 02, 2017, 07:06:51 AM
Well, Vettel is likely to gain a 5-place grid drop after that Stroll shunt. FIA has ruled that the gearbox change is not caused by unforeseen circumstances and will therefore not grant Ferrari a free switch.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 03, 2017, 01:27:10 AM
Have I mentioned lately how much I despise these tight limits on the no. of penalty-free engines/gearboxes etc that can be used?  What a way to (potentially) have a title decided....
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 03, 2017, 01:55:03 AM
Your opinion on this matter might have come up once or twice.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 03, 2017, 04:08:12 AM
 :)

Steel yourself for more of the same next year....
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 04, 2017, 12:59:30 AM
Vettel's Malaysia gearbox probably okay for Japan; team will know for certain once it's run in Friday practice: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41489132

Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on October 06, 2017, 10:20:44 PM
Got my Minardi book signed by Fisichella, Bruni, and Christian Fittipaldi. Bruni and Fittipaldi both looked through it for a few minutes.

I hope to get it signed by more people, but it's hard to find most of them these days. Many are retired or racing in Europe.

(https://minardif1.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi67.tinypic.com%2F2ljiy3s.jpg&hash=84f1e20803a1f0168a983a9cd4e5c7245d343074)
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 06, 2017, 11:59:27 PM
Nice.  Where were those guys found lurking?

Grid penalties for Suzuka:

Kimi - 5
Bottas - 5
Palmer - 20
Sainz - 20
Alonso - 35
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 07, 2017, 05:28:31 AM
Palmer leaves Renault after Japan.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 09, 2017, 06:12:27 AM
Now desperately need a Hammy DNF in the U.S. to keep the title fight even remotely interesting.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 09, 2017, 07:27:04 AM
Even two straight Hamilton DNFs and Vettel wins would mean Hamilton keeps the lead in the championship. So this is over for 2017.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 10, 2017, 01:32:14 AM
Realistically, yes, that is the case.  However, I still have fingers crossed for Seb winning the next two with Lewis picking up a DNF and perhaps a third place, reducing his lead to a mere 24 points.  Inject a tiny amount of uncertainty into the title fight for the last two races.  A really tiny amount....
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on October 11, 2017, 07:45:09 PM
Quote from: Penfold on October 06, 2017, 11:59:27 PM
Nice.  Where were those guys found lurking?

IMSA race. Fittipaldi drives a prototype (retiring from full-time driving after this season), the other two have manufacturer GT drives. Fisichella is with Ferrari, Bruni is with Porsche after leaving Ferrari earlier this season.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 12, 2017, 06:50:58 AM
Gasly to miss the US Grand Prix as he is racing in Japan that weekend:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasly-austin-super-formula-finale-964670/

His replacement is not announced, but no Toro Rosso rookie has the points required.

So, here's hoping Kubica.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 12, 2017, 08:01:51 AM
Kubica would be silly expensive, it turns out:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/kubica-return-hindered-by-insurance-issue/

"This ongoing dispute means there is potentially an open seat at Toro Rosso in Austin, Texas, with Kubica thought to be one option.

However, that does not appear likely after it has emerged that it would trigger a reimbursement of a substantial lifetime insurance payout Kubica received for being permanently unable to race in F1 following his horrific rally accident."
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on October 12, 2017, 09:31:46 PM
There are apparently rumors of Hartley getting the seat for that race. Porsche has said that there's nothing in his WEC contract preventing it.

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/144972-hartley-free-to-take-up-toro-rosso-chance
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 13, 2017, 01:00:29 AM
So J.R. is favourite for the drive with Buemi as the back-up choice.  Hope the New Zealander gets the nod, we already know what Buemi can do in an F1 car.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 13, 2017, 01:19:47 AM
I indeed came to post about Hartley for USGP. He is also in the running for a 2018 seat, presumably replacing Kvyat full-time then.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 14, 2017, 04:34:05 AM
Hartley it is for the US GP: https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/10/13/hartley-takes-gaslys-place-toro-rosso-us-gp/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 20, 2017, 02:17:31 AM
Could get some rain on race day: https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/10/19/2017-united-states-grand-prix-weather/

Talking of this weekend's race, workers at COTA have been out grinding away on the asphalt: https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/10/19/cota-tries-to-reduce-its-bumps-again/
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Matt on October 22, 2017, 01:00:44 PM
I hope the rest of the world got to watch Michael Buffer's driver introductions, including Chrill's favorite, the Viking from Sweden Marcus Ericsson.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 23, 2017, 01:35:03 AM
We did get to watch it. Cringeworthy yet amazing. You Americans sure know how to put on an event. The national anthem always makes me an American patriot.

My two favorite parts:

Daniil THE TORPEEEDOOO Kvyat
Always smiling... KIMI RAAAIKKONNNNEEEENN

Great stuff.

As for the race, very upset with Ericsson's penalty. He pulled off an ABSOLUTELY amazing move, slipstreaming on Vettel who lapped him and going level with Magnussen for the braking point. Magnussen just turns in. Idiot Dane. Then Ericsson is penalised.

Of course I'm biased but REALLY, Ericsson did nothing wrong. He was alongside Magnussen.

Then again, the stewards did get heavily involved this weekend. Two grid penalties for impeding (Stroll, Magnussen), and then midrace penalties for Ericsson and Verstappen. Not the way 2017 stewards have behaved before and not how they should behave.

Decent race with what Vettel taking the lead at the start, but Hamilton never looked like anything other than a winner here.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 23, 2017, 05:24:06 AM
Didn't agree with Ericsson's penalty but I have no problem with the grid drops for Stroll & KMag or with Max being punished for cutting the corner to nip past Kimi - great move it might be but no way can they let drivers get away with that.  Still, 'twas a fun race to watch with plenty of fighting going on, although too bad Dan's car died and Max started in 16th... what a fight they might've given Hammy.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 23, 2017, 08:57:06 AM
I definitely agree with K-Mag and Stroll, probably Verstappen too. However, it would be so easy to prevent what Verstappen did by leaving a gravel trap on the inside, or put up some railing or a wall or whathaveyou. If he does that in Monaco, this happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y-Zm-dBcng

Problem solved.
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 24, 2017, 01:08:08 AM
Hartley and Gasly for Toro Rosso at the Mexican GP:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hartley-kvyat-gasly-mexico-toro-rosso-969691/

This means the fourth different Toro Rosso lineup in 5 races (Sainz-Kvyat, Sainz-Gasly, Kvyat-Hartley, Gasly-Hartley). If they then revert to running Kvyat-Gasly for a race, that would be a fifth lineup. Surely this is some sort of record?
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Penfold on October 24, 2017, 04:20:27 AM
Yes It Is.  And that's also a record.

Alonso might be starting right at the back in Mexico but at least he'll have Honda's upgraded engine to power him past all rivals: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132586/alonso-could-get-honda-upgrade-after-failure
Title: Re: The 2017 Season
Post by: Chrill on October 29, 2017, 04:38:49 PM
That's a very mediocre Mexican GP. I was very excited about Ericsson, running as high as P8 by midrace. He pits to undercut Alonso, then 2 laps later a Virtual SC is needed to retrieve a car from the track. Boom, Ericsson down to P12. He then retires the car with a turbo failure. Great race, utterly dominated Wehrlein this weekend too.

Hamilton is now officially world champion, something we had known since Singapore.

Verstappen maintains his form of winning whenever Kvyat is demoted/removed/fired.

Vettel deliberately crashed into Hamilton, was not penalised, and was later voted driver of the day. That's not too cool.

Hamilton was absurdly slow today. I mean, wow. He could barely pass Wehrlein and Ericsson.

Magnussen and Stroll might be my drivers of the day. We'll see what happens once I analyse it and provide my ratings.