MF1 Forum

Quote from: ChrillI mean, seriously, how is there not a topic discussing circuits?

I figured I needed a good place to discuss the Port Imperial Street Circuit (New Jersey/New York 2013) and a circuit topic would do it.

(Click for larger view)
(https://minardif1.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa6%2FPort_imperial_road_circuit.svg%2F500px-Port_imperial_road_circuit.svg.png&hash=e7de9134546c9895a8f09b3aec43748c7dab4922) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Port_imperial_road_circuit.svg/1000px-Port_imperial_road_circuit.svg.png)

What are your opinions? I mean, the start/finish straight is basically non-existant, see here:
(https://minardif1.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F0%2F0f%2FCircuit_New_Jersey.svg%2F500px-Circuit_New_Jersey.svg.png&hash=0a4b649746d6dc397b97f421da13db3369af238f)

Quote from: LjudThis would run better in the other direction, that is counter-clockwise I guess. Still, seems like a lame copy of Monaco with wanted some fake Montreal effect. Dunno, dunno. Would have to see it raced, for better judgment. But it seems just too narrow, many slow corners, almost no straights, no fast corners. Or maybe I'm mistaken, the track is over 5 km long after all.

I still can't lose the Monaco impression, however. OK, chicane right after start is just plane stupid, than we have some corners like st.devote/la source/rascasse. Actually 3/4 is totally rascasse. 5-11 looks bit like Beau Rivage or maybe fake Eau Rouge into Kemmel complex. 13 is Massenet from Monaco. Then there's obvious standard trademark Tilke hairpin aka Loews. Followed by long "straight" like in Monaco, except without chicanes. Then 18/19 and 1/2 is again like Piscine in Monaco.
Of course Montreal also have those straight/chicane/hairpin things bundled.

You know my immediate thought on first sight of the track diagram was 'Detroit'; a circuit disturbingly familiar from too many hours on Geoff Crammond's epic F1 GP game.  Now that I've actually gone and grabbed an image of that long dead layout I see the New Jersey take as thankfully less stop-start and, as Ljud has elegantly covered, tilting heavily to Monaco & Montreal.

One thing, the 'straight' running from turn 15 to 18 must be at least 1km.  Anyone else find the proliferation of such lengthy strips of tarmac a little depressing?  Of the recent(ish) additions to the calendar we have Shanghai, Yas Marina, Yeongam, Buddh, and PISC (to abbreviate the New Jersey track name) each with a 1km plus straight - I guess this is where F1 finds itself, reduced to the 'long drag' to provide any possibility of overtaking.  Well, that and tyres that fall apart.   

Detroit layout as raced in the mid- to late-eighties:

(https://minardif1.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F3%2F38%2FDowntown_Detroit_Street_Circuit.svg%2F640px-Downtown_Detroit_Street_Circuit.svg.png&hash=91150a4edb785b392373e2d61d8a243a76bbceaa)

Quote from: Chrill on November 21, 2011, 12:32:57 PMI mean, seriously, how is there not a topic discussing circuits?

We're plainly terrible at this whole F1 forum thingy.

Quote from: ChrillI think Tilke compared the PISC (I love the abbreviation) with Spa-Francorchamps, Montreal and Monaco all bundled into one. Which, be honest, SOUNDS amazing. It just, probably, isn't...

I'd rather see a Central Park race, shame that's not in the slightest possible ;D

Quote from: Chrillhttp://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96412

2012 Brazilian Grand Prix will see a heavy revision of the final section, since two separate stock car accidents back in April both caused a fatality. Bigger pit entry, bigger run-off, generally more safe and modern final few corners. No major revisions for this weekend though.

So long as that fast, narrow section of track remains unchanged I'm all for the plan


Seeing as you (Mr. Chrill) went to the effort of forming this rather delightful F1 circuit-themed haven, t'would be rude not to use it.  With that in mind comes this news snippet/F1 track story... Germany's Speed Week reports that "leading representatives" of Mexico's motor racing federation are "very confident" an F1 race is viable, with the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez in pole position as the venue.


And here's a photo of said circuit:
(https://minardif1.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-EOuSchV5WMc%2FTj0hPEYFPMI%2FAAAAAAAAA9E%2FtFEH_aucE8I%2Fs1600%2FAutodromo_Hermanos_Rodriguez.jpg&hash=268c60c8f41ed37c9120d5cb20c7113fd6ee140e)

Quote from: ChrillFrom what I've heard, a new circuit is to be built if Mexico gets the nod. A new race circuit, not some lame street circuit in Guadalajara as has also been reported.

Just what the World has been crying out for, an all new F1-specced race track.  Surely by now the planet has sufficient for at least two entire championships - quite useful were you planning a breakaway series.

Quote from: ChrillI'd like to see a return to Imola. Shame it's in the wrong country. Had Imola been located in Abu Dhabi, I'd LOVE for F1 to go racing there.

New F1-spec track under construction in Argentina.  The Velociudad SpeedCity circuit lies approx 80km from Buenos Aires and is due for completion in early 2014; it will measure aprox. 4.7km and has been designed by Populous, the people behind Silverstone's recent revamp.

That's all I know.

Quote from: ChrillIn other words, not Tilke. HALLELUJAH

My first thoughts also.  Soon replaced with, ahh, I bet it won't host F1 anytime soon as Bernie's sights seem set on S. Africa and/or Mexico. Two more for Tilke?


French Govt. says plans to alternate a GP slot with Spa are "on track".  Le Figaro reports Paul Ricard in September 2013 will mark F1's return to France.

Also in 'track' news this fine (overcast) day:  Valencia's officials want a friendly chat with Bernie over reducing their race fee, which stands at 21 million Euros and runs until 2014.  Apparently Spain doesn't have a lot of cash right now... who knew?

Quote from: ChrillThe same goes for Circuit de Catalunya. They are "reconsidering" their continued participation in both Formula 1 and MotoGP.

Yep, bankruptcy all round.  So then, Bernie has suggested the two Spanish tracks alternating as a possible solution.  Which to me seemed likely quite some time ago.

Magny Cours battling it out with Paul Ricard to host the French GP in 2013.  Patrice Joly, president of the conseil general of the Nievre department, has said that a theme park proposed for Magny Cours could raise enough money and sufficiently develop the surrounding area in order to bring the grand prix back to the track.  Joly said the project, to cost EUR 50 million, would be completed by the summer.

Quote from: ChrillWell, the problem with Magny-Cours never was the track, rather it was the rural setting. Build a goddamn city and we'll be fine.

Agree with you there, but sadly for the Magny-Cours people negotiations between Bernie and Paul Ricard's management are imminent: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/01/25/paul-ricard-set-to-host-2013-french-gp/

Two-into-one Spanish/European GP plan actively pursued by Valencia side: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/01/25/valencia-pushing-barcelona-for-f1-alternation/

Quote from: ChrillI'd rather push for a new venue in Spain. Or for a move to Portuguese Estoril...

Portugal's economy is busy following Greece's into the abyss.  Sadly I don't see an Estoril revamp and handing $20 million/year to Bernie as a high priority for their Government.

Quote from: ChrillAw damn. Let's just scrap Spain and party in Mexico in 2013 then. They all speak the same language anyway.

Except for the Portuguese.  :P

Barcelona chiefs have come out against the idea of race sharing.  I hope the guys in Valencia have a plan B up their sleeves.

Quote from: ChrillI SAID SPAIN AND MEXICO, U F00L.

Also, I'd rather keep Barcelona and witness Valencia getting the f*** out of the F1 racing scene.

Oh crap.  Any more such howlers and you'll suspect I don't pay attention to your posts.

Agree with your Spanish track preference, Ljud.  Of course we have Valencia entering year two of a ten-year, $25 million/annum contract, with break fees of $50 million or more... poor dears can't afford to keep or cancel the race.  Perhaps they'll catch Bernie in a charitable mood and get their fee slashed.

Quote from: ChrillInterlagos will be slightly revamped for 2013. The track itself won't change, but a new pit complex exclusively for Formula 1 will be built at what was formerly the straight after the start.

http://www.thef1times.com/news/display/05948#page_top

A chicane will be installed leading onto the "former" start/finish straight but most likely not used by Formula 1, thus rendering the F1 track exactly the same albeit starting at another place!!

Shifting the start/finish point will take some getting used to after all these years, but if that's what's needed to keep Interlagos as a viable F1 prospect then what the hell.


New Jersey circuit layout officially confirmed.  Start/finish line is located by the Hudson River ferry terminal (scenic!) and from there the track runs clockwise for a total of 3.2 miles - apparently with much undulation & shifts of camber along the way.  I maintain a stalwart belief that the configuration will allow for decent racing; rather wide image follows:

(https://minardif1.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg832.imageshack.us%2Fimg832%2F1687%2Fnewjerseyf12013streett.jpg&hash=8f5c25d4d63680e542c090fabb5031e92ff70dcb)


A return to Mexico is being pencilled in for next year, or so says one Spanish newspaper: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/05/30/mexico-to-host-grand-prix-return-in-2013/

On the old (but refurbished) Hermanos Rodriguez circuit no less:

(https://minardif1.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-CUcAKoVmRqs%2FTe4-kBGroQI%2FAAAAAAAACIo%2FpaB-ob_XDJo%2Fs1600%2F%2525D0%252591%2525D0%2525B5%2525D0%2525B7%2525D1%25258B%2525D0%2525BC%2525D1%25258F%2525D0%2525BD%2525D0%2525BD%2525D1%25258B%2525D0%2525B9.bmp&hash=0b04fa7375210b50628d7c2a356c4f1023a0b3cb)

Quote from: ChrillI'd quite like that!! It seems both Russia and New Jersey will end up not making it, so why not?

Quote from: MattI mean, Bernie makes comments similar to those surrounding Jersey about every new race.

Yeah, he's quite the kidder.  God knows how we'll cope when he's gone.

Montreal on cusp of new ten-year deal: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/13/montreal-close-to-new-long-term-f1-deal-says-ecclestone/

Great news as it's one of those tracks whose absence would diminish the sport.  At least for me.  One point though, Bernie clearly struggling with simple maths/memory as Europe has eight races not ten, and from next year seven - though only until the next one (Hungary?) disappears.


Thailand fancies having a GP: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/thailand-eyes-2014-grand-prix-debut/

Well why not, a mere twenty races on the calendar at the moment so plenty of room for newcomers - New Jersey, Russia, Mexico, Argentina (aren't they borderline bankrupt?), Thailand... doubtless be another couple of hopefuls along shortly.

Bernie gives thumbs up to Interlagos redevelopment plan (first mentioned by Chrill in 10th May post): http://www.motorsport.com/#!/f1/news/ecclestone-approves-plan-to-move-interlagos-pits/

Quote from: ChrillIf we are to add five new races, we'll also have to lose five. Teams refuse more than 20 races a season. Rumours has it the Russian GP will be cancelled because they cannot financially pull off an F1 race the same year as the 2014 Winter Olympics. Perhaps Russia will have to wait to 2015 then...

Currently, no new tracks are confirmed for 2013. We actually "only" have 17 confirmed races for next season; all races from 2012 except Belgium, Japan, Europe (Valencia and Barcelona will alternate, starting with a Barcelona race in 2013) and Singapore, as well as the "Grand Prix of America" in New Jersey. We surely mustn't lose both Suzuka and Spa-Francorchamps... There is room to add three more according to the old Concorde Agreement, but there'll be a new one for 2013. I'm guessing Belgium (alternating with France??) and Japan will stay on, perhaps the 20th race will be Argentina, Thailand or Mexico.

I see us with twenty next year but only as I'm assuming Suzuka and Singapore will be with us (though I could happily lose the latter) and that the Franco-Belgian alternation commences with Paul Ricard.  If said assumptions are accurate then pressure to shed a track or two will hold until 2014, when Mexico and/or Thailand slide into the picture - does seem as if Russia will be ready later than first imagined.

So who to lose... Korea struggling to attract crowds/pay Bernie/build the promised city around the circuit.  I suspect their days are numbered.

Quote from: ChrillNot a big lose, either. The only recently added track I like is the Buddh International in India. It's actually a pretty nifty piece of race track. Here's hoping Texas is even better. The start-finish straight ends in a steep incline before the first left hander.

Here's a work in progress of Codemaster's take on the Austin circuit as realized for F1 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3nK6Ch2lWc

Clearly they haven't got the speeds nailed yet as he tops out below 180 mph, but gives an idea of the track.


New French Govt. support GP return, but will it be Paul Ricard or Magny-Cours? http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/19/new-french-government-see-value-in-grand-prix/

Not exactly sure how this would work, but the Russian GP team is keen to incorporate the Winter Olympics stadium into their F1 track layout: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/19/sochi-eyes-olympic-stadium-for-russian-gp/

Quote from: ChrillWhat, let the main straight run straight through, slap a sharp corner in the middle and hope for overtakes? Sure, sounds spectacular... :P

Yes, clearly the stadium is screaming out for one of Tilke's 'hairpin at end of massive straight' contraptions.  Just need to remove one of those end grandstands.  Can hardly wait....

Mexico next year? http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/21/mexico-working-on-2013-gp-return-says-billionaire-slim/

Don't get the reference to this mooted Mexican GP taking Valencia's 2013 slot, isn't New Jersey already doing that?

Quote from: ChrillAs far as I know, yes, New Jersey is doing that. Valencia and Barcelona is to alternate. France and Belgium too. I guess we will need to lose Singapore and South Korea :)

Latest has it that Spa and Cours/Ricard likely won't be sharing a race slot, and that any French GP will have to stand on its own two feet (i.e. no State support): http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/28/spa-will-not-alternate-with-french-gp/

Meanwhile... Bernie adds yet another entrant to the ever-growing list of would-be race hosts, this time London: http://www.itv.com/news/2012-06-28/f1-boss-bernie-ecclestone-offers-millions-to-hold-london-street-grand-prix/

Quote from: ChrillThat confirms no French GP then

Quote from: PenfoldMeanwhile... Bernie adds yet another entrant to the ever-growing list of would-be race hosts, this time London: http://www.itv.com/news/2012-06-28/f1-boss-bernie-ecclestone-offers-millions-to-hold-london-street-grand-prix/

Yes, I heard something about Ecclestone actually willing to fund the race.

Good news!  Agreement in principle for three year contract extension at Spa: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/07/09/new-three-year-grand-prix-deal-for-spa-francorchamps-confirmed/

Quote from: ChrillDidn't they announce that a few weeks back? I remember having heard something like "no, we wont alternate with France, we will host a race every year until at least 2015"

Hmm, think that was just an ambition at the time... now they (almost) have a contract with Bernie.  One step closer.

In other circuit news: Singapore has yet to extend its deal beyond 2012; race organizers attempting to negotiate a reduction in current $40 million/year payments.  Personally I hope they can't come to an agreement with Mr. E as I very much dislike the Singapore GP.

Quote from: ChrillI don't mind the Singapore GP nearly as much as you do, but I still agree. It is one of the tracks I'd wanna see go away and be replaced by, I dunno, CotA?

Unfortunately seems as though a new five-year deal has been agreed between Bernie and the Singaporeans.  Oh well, perhaps the race will 'do a Valencia' with a sudden, and entirely unexpected drastic improvement in quality/excitement.

Quote from: ChrillSure, the Valencia GP was a good one this year but that's entirely down to DNFs. Had Vettel not broken down, it would have been a runaway victory.

True, Seb V. was waltzing it.  Still, much more overtaking through the field (not one of those grass covered expanses) than in previous events... at least I think there was.  It's surely the first time I didn't come near to nodding off during a Valencia GP, which I guess counts for something.

Quote from: ChrillI am guessing this is the place to do a little summary on the 2013 circuits!

The calendar for 2013 has still not been released (the one for 2012 was released back in early July 2011, so we're already two months late!) because of negotiation issues. However, they aim to run a 20-race calendar in 2013. 18 races are already confirmed:

1. Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi
2. Port Imperial, New Jersey NEW
3. Albert Park, Melbourne, Australia
4. Sakhir, Bahrain
5. Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium
6. Interlagos, São Paulo, Brazil
7. Silverstone, UK
8. Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, Montreal, Canada
9. Shanghai, China
10. Nürburgring, Germany Alternating with Hockenheim, Germany
11. Hungaroring, Hungary
12. Buddh International, India
13. Monza, Italy
14. Yeongam, South Korea
15. Sepang, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
16. Monte Carlo, Monaco
17. Circuit de Catalunya, Spain Alternating with Valencia Street Circuit, Spain
18. Circuit of the Americas, Austin, TX


2012 tracks NOT currently signed for 2013:
19. Suzuka Circuit, Japan
20. Marina Bay, Singapore


Japan and Singapore are supposedly expected to stay on for 2013 but are not yet confirmed.

Tracks that could potentially take their place already in 2013 are:
Magny-Cours, France
Paul Ricard, France
Istanbul, Turkey


Other proposals that are not confirmed for 2013, but might be on the table for 2014 (or later):
Mar de Plata, Argentina
London Street Circuit, UK
Rome Street Circuit, Italy
Sochi, Russia

Mexico as possible 2014/15 addition?

Last I read on Sochi was that they are still determined to make the 2014 calendar, and yet the circuits which one may consider to have questionable long-term commitment to F1 (due to size of hosting fee and/or lacklustre national interest) all seem to have contracts extending to 2015 or later.  So to squeeze in Russia any earlier (assuming constant 20 race schedule) will compel Bernie to agree an early termination deal with the... Chinese, Bahrainis, Malaysians, South Koreans (though just agreed a fee cut for them so seems unlikely), Hungarians???

Interesting to see who drops out, unless of course the calendar grows yet fatter.

Edit: Magny-Cours asks to be considered for inclusion on the 2013 calendar, Paul Ricard to follow suit next week: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/09/05/magny-cours-applies-for-date-on-2013-calendar/

Now all they need is to arrange the little matter of Bernie's fee, and to convince him they can keep the money coming throughout a multi-year contract.  Simple.

Quote from: ChrillWith 18 races confirmed, I am afraid we will lose Suzuka if they try to fit in more races. We shall see who gets confirmed first; Suzuka or Singapore.

Losing Suzuka would be a bitter blow; one more nail in the coffin of my F1 enjoyment.

Quote from: ChrillWith 18 races confirmed, I am afraid we will lose Suzuka if they try to fit in more races. We shall see who gets confirmed first; Suzuka or Singapore.

That would be Singapore then, with a contract extension taking them through to 2017.  Something along those lines for Suzuka would be most welcome.

Quote from: ChrillWell now, Suzuka was included in the list for 2013 tracks. All good.

The next country to apply for an F1 race may be European once more! Advanced plans for a proper motor racing in Wales are in motion. Primarily the track would aim for other series than F1 but it would indeed be "up to it" as far as safety standards go.
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/motogp-news/284576/circuit-of-wales-to-submit-planni

Even if the racing only ever involves bikes and lower series cars, the project will provide a welcome economic boost to the area; and as the proposed site is within an industrial estate one would hope commercial motorsport entities could be enticed to set-up shop.


More on possibility of French GP; Aussies want a fee cut; and Thailand push for a race in 2014: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/09/27/french-gp-could-happen-as-thailand-strike-f1-deal/

Great, another bloody street race on the calendar.  And who gets canned to squeeze in this one?

Quote from: ChrillAlso;
South Africa
France
Mexico
Argentina

Lots of countries want in. Rumours has it Nürburgring won't host another F1 race. That would put Hockenheim back at hosting races every year. Which they cannot afford. THEREFORE, rumours has it that Hockenheim will attempt to join the Paul Ricard Circuit in alternating, the French track in 2013, 2015, 2017 and the German in 2014 and 2016.

... and not forgetting Russia in 2014.  Though I reckon Argentina can be ruled out, somehow I just don't see them having the cash to convince Bernie that a race is viable - the same may well be true of S. Africa.


Greeks ploughing on with their F1-standard circuit: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/10/02/greek-government-to-subsidise-f1-track/

Nice 30 million Euro subsidy from the (bankrupt) Govt.  One might suggest that any spare money be directed towards Greece's overwhelmed soup kitchens or earmarked for replenishing depleted hospital supplies, and perhaps leave the, almost certainly loss-making, race track for another day.  If you are going to subsidize something, at least pick ventures with a high likelihood of profitability and significant long-term job creation... mind you, who would be crazy enough to invest in Greece before the Euro crisis is resolved?

Quote from: ChrillI'd rather see the Euro dissolved. It's doing no good to any of the countries. Sweden is doing far better without it. The UK would be doing far worse with the Euro. We are all lucky not to use the Euro. The Germans, the Finns and the Greeks are reportedly all looking into reverting to their former currencies (the German mark, the Finnish markka and the Greek drachma). Supposedly the Finns are furthest along the path of actually making it an official proposal. Sweden is clearly not going to join the Euro judging from what has happened these last few years.

Now, F1!

Fairly sure you'll get your Euro break-up wish, all just a question of how long the populace of various troubled nations tolerate mass unemployment.  Actually the best solution would entail Germany and a few like-minded pals forming a new 'hard currency' grouping and let France & Italy take the reins of the Euro - which would then quickly drop in value.  This at least would keep all those pesky debts in Euros rather than Greece, Spain, etc having to either re-base them into Drachmas, Pesetas, etc, or attempt to fund existing Euro debts with their new (old) devalued currencies.  All this is far too sensible and counter to the grand European Project so of course it will never happen.  Instead we'll get a right bloody mess.

Just as a side note (then no more on the issue), the U.K.'s Liberal Democrats, who are currently in coalition with Conservatives, still believe it is in our long-term interest to join the Euro.  And still people vote for them... ::)


Another wannabe to add to the list: Qatar.  Pushing for an F1 licence for their Losail circuit, with a view to initially hosting pre-season testing but eventually a GP: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/10/22/qatar-pushing-for-f1-testing-and-targets-grand-prix/

Wow, I'm so excited by this prospect I might just explode.

Quote from: ChrillOh yes, I'd absolutely love some more Middle Eastern flavour to our race series. The mighty Qatar will also be hosting the 2022 World Cup. Good country, that.

Did I mention that Qatar is about the same size as Yorkshire and with a citizen number well below the city of Bristol? About 30% of the Qatari population (1.5 million) are citizens of Qatar. The other 70% are foreigners working there.

Oh yes, the (won fair and square) 2022 World Cup... because who wouldn't want to visit a desert state in the height of summer?

Thailand has agreed a deal in principle for a night race (whoopie) to be run round the streets (oh great) of Bangkok from 2014 and on.

Quote from: ChrillRumours has it France has indeed been offered to replace New Jersey for 2013. Paul Ricard or Magny-Cours are touted as the most likely options. If funding is in place, Ecclestone claims he is ready to sign.

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/93088.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

Quote from: LjudRead somewhere, could be even on here, can't recall, that Red Bull is pushing for the New Jersey race and are ready to make a significant contribution financially to organize the race there in 2013.

Bernie did suggest that Dietrich whatshisface (owner of Red Bull) should consider stepping in to save the event for 2013, but I haven't read anything on Herr Red Bull's willingness to actually put hand in pocket and toss the resulting coinage New Jersey's way.  If Dietrich doesn't save the day, I assume Paul Ricard (owned by a certain Mr. Ecclestone) must be favourite as a last-minute replacement.


Bernie's keen (if the money's right) for Istanbul to return to the F1 family.  Good track so happy to see it back, but presumably same issue with low attendance would persist and so then bankruptcy for track owner ensues.

That Marko chap from Red Bull suggested the A1-Ring (now Red Bull Ring) could one day again host F1.  All depends whether spaces open up on the calendar due to venues such as Korea being unable/unwilling to continue absorbing huge annual losses.

Quote from: ChrillI've heard it's a race to the money between Austria and Turkey for race 20. Personally, I'd rather see Austria just because it's been a while. Turkey isn't so bad, but it's just like any new track.

The A1-Ring was always one of my favourites on the old F1 racing games (of course the games weren't old at the time...).


Revised 2013 calendar:

17/03 Australia
24/03 Malaysia
14/04 China
21/04 Bahrain
12/05 Spain
26/05 Monaco
09/06 Canada
30/06 United Kingdom
07/07 Germany
21/07 Reserved for another European event*
28/07 Hungary
25/08 Belgium
08/09 Italy
22/09 Singapore
06/10 Korea
13/10 Japan
27/10 India
03/11 Abu Dhabi
17/11 U.S.A.
24/11 Brazil

*Subject to approval of the relevant national sporting authorities

Quote from: ChrillI'D LOVE IMOLA BACK THOUGH. OK.

If only.  Austria seems top of the pile now the Turkish Govt. has refused to financially support Istanbul, with France as an outside possibility.

Quote from: ChrillSo, there are two Red Bull teams in F1, one of them world champion from 2011 to 2013, and now a circuit too? At least the Red Bull Ring won't be all that suitable for Red Bull. It doesn't play to their strengths!

Barcelona wants race slot all to its self: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/12/19/barcelona-not-intersted-in-valencia-alternation-option/

Thailand night race possible in 2015: http://www.crash.net/f1/news/186916/1/thailand_set_for_2015_f1_debut.html

Yes! Another street race comprising 20-odd low-speed corners for drivers to accelerate/decelerate in between.  I can hardly wait.

Quote from: ChrillYAAAY MORE TRACKS LIKE ABU DHABI, SINGAPORE AND BAHRAIN. AWESOMENESS.

Mexico in push for 2014 GP: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/289552/mexico-targets-return-to-calendar-in-2014/

Well, would be a superior choice than most (all?) of the recent additions.


Next year's Russian GP will get a November slot, according to the Mayor of Sochi.

Valencia track/streets used for circuit have rapidly fallen into a state of disrepair, making F1's return to the venue unlikely.

Der Spiegel asserts that Bernie has told the Nurburgring that they will not be hosting this year's German GP; meaning we get the even more tedious Hockenheim circuit - not that I'll be watching as it's a SKY exclusive.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Bernie has proposed the Algarve International Circuit as a possible venue for round ten of the 2013 Championship.  I think it's basically that or somewhere in France, with the latter option still in the lead.

Quote from: ChrillWith Nürburgring out, what I have heard is we will have no German Grand Prix at all, possibly reducing the calendar to 18 races... JUST BRING IN THE RED BULL RING, IMOLA, ALGARVE, PAUL RICARD, MAGNY-COURS, ZANDVOORT OR ISTANBUL PARK!!!! It's not like there is a lack of circuits capable of hosting F1 races.

There's only a shortage of Bernie-approved venues.

Six weeks from season opener and the calendar is not yet finalized, one of the teams is in limbo, and several driver spots remain unconfirmed.  All seems quite unusual, or perhaps not and I've simply erased such pre-season shenanigans from my memory?


... and now Nurburgring has been confirmed as the location of this year's German GP.  Just need to sort the July 21st slot.


No we don't, as Bernie has decided there will be nineteen races this year.  Looks like I'll have that two month gap (between Silverstone & Spa) in my F1 viewing this summer.

Quote from: ChrillYup, the calendar is now a gaping silly design, and the BBC are amongst the losers. Again. Penfold, come visit me I will buy me some fancy HD channel for this season.

Tempting, although not for the F1.  I barely give a crap about the German or Hungarian races....


I thought I'd read some time back that Bernie was negotiating for the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez to host a GP from 2014, but apparently the man himself has only just confirmed said talks: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/02/25/mexico-city-venue-mexican-gp-ecclestone/

Would be a welcome addition in my book.  So long as they don't dick around with the track to make it 'suitable' for modern F1.


Bernie sees potential for a 22-race calendar http://www.crash.net/f1/news/188620/1/ecclestone_still_chasing_expansion_plan.html

Teams should be able to squeeze extra cash from the F1 machine if the schedule is expanded beyond twenty, but would their personnel welcome a longer season/additional back-to-back events?

Quote from: ChrillWith 22 races, they might as well do 30 races and simply have two crews rotating, doing 2-3 races each and then going on vacation. 20 feels like the maximum, they do work pretty much 7 days per week from February to November.

Twenty also feels like a maximum for how many weekends per year I want to spend watching F1 - of course with BBC coverage being what it is, perhaps I should be clamouring for 40 races!

Quote from: ChrillI'd not mind spending 40 Sundays per year on formula 1...

Clearly more of an F1 nut than little old me....


New Jersey organizers say no logistical problems hosting event next year, Bernie says 'show me the money': http://www.yallaf1.com/2013/03/08/new-jersey-reportedly-back-on-track-for-2014/

Quote from: ChrillSO I'VE DISCOVERED AN ISSUE WITH THIS WHOLE HAVING A JOB THING. I work some Sundays, perhaps once per month. That means I will miss EVERY SINGLE RACE. Apparently. The Australian GP runs from 7am Chrill-time. Should end around 8:45am I suppose. This time I'm only so unlucky. I work from 8:45am that Sunday. I might consider "oversleeping". Or try the honest approach and ask to come in late. They wouldn't mind, the workload has decreased drastically and they don't want us there :P

Quote from: LjudHow does working one Sunday per month make you miss every single race?

In the mean time, Cape Town/Kaapstad/iKapa decided they don't want an F1 race, which Bernie was pushing for.

Quote from: ChrillLjud; With my bad luck, my schedule will somehow warp every weekend and I will end up watching a total of 2 races this year :(

Quote from: ChrillHere's what we use Interlagos for when Formula 1 is not around!

http://youtu.be/-lYHjaDQ1RA

Jump to 1:30 for RACE

How dare they defile the 'Senna S' with their giant delivery vans... :)

Quote from: LjudBernie on again how F1 is and needs to be World (read: Asian; or who-gives-most-moneys-to-Mr.E.) championship, not European.
With Thailand and Mexico being mentioned as candidates.

I have no enthusiasm for this proposed night race round the streets of Bangkok (or for most of the existing Asian races), but perhaps Bernie's sensing an upcoming Korea-shaped gap in the schedule.  Mexico on the other hand could be a great addition, providing Tilke doesn't get his grubby little hands on any revisions to the old Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez.

Quote from: Chrillhttp://www.yallaf1.com/2013/03/20/russia-gp-organiser-goes-bankrupt/
How are the Russians doing? We'll see.

Ahh, yeah, that's got to be helpful.  Still, sounds like that Omega company has stepped in to organize the show... just a shame about the utterly uninspiring track layout.

Quote from: ChrillOut of the massive 5.8 kilometre lap, only 1.1 kilometres is public road. Still, they cannot manage much. It looks like a very boring circuit with few overtaking opportunities. Maybe into turn 1.

Bernie sounding serious about the need for Interlagos to resolve its failings: http://www.yallaf1.com/2013/04/16/2013-season-finale-could-be-interlagos-last-f1-race/


Swollen costs (and possibly some dodgy construction work) in Sochi: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/meanwhile-in-izvestia/


Proposed course for Thailand GP: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/04/26/thailand-grand-prix-track-route-confirmed-2015-race/

What an exciting mix of long straights and slow corners.

Quote from: ChrillWhat an exciting array of.. bleh, that track has got to be modified.

I'm resigned to the Thailand GP circuit's layout being about as exciting as Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, or Singapore.  Look on the plus side, combine those long straights with the wonder that is DRS and we should have fifty to one hundred overtakes per race; and if that doesn't have 'guaranteed excitement' stamped all over it in giant pink font then I don't know what does.


I give my last post 7 out of 10... not a bad effort but could do so much more if he applied himself.

If Bild is to be believed, Bernie waived Nurburgring's fee to guarantee a 2013 German GP: http://grandprix247.com/2013/06/26/ecclestone-generosity-saves-german-gp-at-nurburgring/

Wouldn't be surprised if it were true as a gappy calendar is no good to anyone, but I wonder if this will be F1's last sojourn to Nurburg given the track owner's financial situation.

Quote from: ChrillUpgrades to Interlagos to be finished ahead of the 2014 race. This would secure Interlagos at the F1 scene for yeaaarssss to come!

(https://minardif1.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.f1times.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fcache%2Fimages%2Finterlagos-changes.gif&hash=5bd06ea21c42943637b6c762775f74d99689af91)

Quote from: LjudOh, they're going to silverstone it. Well if it makes it stay in F1 I'm all for it. Better than hockenheiming it.

Quote from: ChrillWell, Silverstone it as in adding a new pit complex? Sure. They are not getting rid of any of the historically famous areas though, they're just extending the second straight :p

I'm rather fond of the cheeky little turn 4 currently sat at the end of that straight and don't see why they couldn't simply replicate it on the extended section, rather than sticking in one of those tedious constant-radius corners.

Quote from: ChrillWell, a constant-radius corner like that would make for a very interesting start sequence and the run up to what will now be turns 3, 4 and 5 I suppose.

Quote from: CabanacatWhattt!   That's my favorite corner in F1!  And now they're gonna ruin it :(

Technically the corner will still be there, they just won't use it for F1. :P  To be serious for a moment, I am actually quite annoyed that someone would casually strip the best corner from Interlagos.

Quote from: ChrillWell, a constant-radius corner like that would make for a very interesting start sequence and the run up to what will now be turns 3, 4 and 5 I suppose.

I don't know, I reckon it would be fun to see the field two- or three-abreast squeeze itself through the old turn 4.


Rumour ahoy! A1-/Red Bull-Ring poised to host F1 next year: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/07/23/f1-tipped-to-return-to-austria-in-2014/

Add in Sochi & New Jersey and we're at 22 races, though either of those could suffer slippage to 2015.  Additionally, there must be a giant neon question mark hanging over the financial black hole that is the South Korean GP.

Quote from: ChrillSochi is supposedly even ahead of schedule. New Jersey is the one I carry most doubts about. Possible we will see a 21-slot calendar for next year. I'm happy to see the Red A Bull Ring 1 back

Quote from: LjudBernie says: "Austria, yes. 20 races." Well, he probably said more than just that. The point is, there won't be any more than 20 races next year. And one of them shall be Austria. Rest, he claims, he doesn't know about yet.

Quote from: ChrillWell, that'd oust South Korea and... Germany perhaps? India? China? Bahrain? God let's pray for it being Bahrain

Have been for years.  Also have my fingers crossed, a rabbit's foot in my pocket, seven four-leaf clovers hanging from a jade dreamcatcher, a wishbone in my left hand, and a horseshoe in the right.  Eating is a nightmare.

Quote from: ChrillHave you considered some sort of nasogastric intubation?

Who hasn't?  :)  Sadly, the NHS doesn't consider my need to clasp lucky charms, so that I may wish Bahrain off the F1 calendar, as a qualifying medical condition.  At least not a physical one.


India GP taking a year off: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/07/30/indian-grand-prix-to-skip-a-year-in-2014/

Also, as mentioned previously, Korea's position on the calendar is looking ever less secure.  Something to do with the organizers being broke after losing tens of millions of Pounds every time they host a race.


'Singapore sling' chicane to be removed from track; or more accurately, it simply won't be plonked atop the road surface any more: http://grandprix247.com/2013/08/20/singapore-removes-unpopular-sling-chicane/

I expect to still be bored silly by the pointless little circuit.

Quote from: LjudEither way, when I read this, it was: "YES! Finally!"
I still don't like Singapore, I still consider it 2nd most boring/annoying circuit in F1 (after Bahrain), but I was raging about this non-corner since before the first race. It's not F1 if you have to drive 60 km/h or fly over or well just the idea of putting 3 90° corners inside 10 metres, or however short it is, is horrendous. And so narrow. If they wanted something stupid, they should put a bus stop a la Spa, there or something.

Yes, we must be grateful even for small mercies.

Quote from: ChrillIf we make a shit track this much better... its still shit. so whatever.

Quote from: Chrillhttp://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109493
Mexico for the 2014 calendar? Presumably thanks to New Jersey getting the middle finger from dear Bernioso.

Quote from: LjudNah, we're just nicely down to number 20. Unless there's another track getting dumped.

Quote from: ChrillWell... If we are to believe speculation...

In:
Russia (confirmed)
New Jersey (confirmed, uncertain)
Mexico (speculated)
Austria (confirmed)

Out:
India (confirmed?)
South Korea (speculated)

If all the In and all the Out are true, we land at 21 circuits. New Jersey needs to go to make room for Mexico :P Bernie said this weekend that the NJ race was off.

I really do want the NJ race though, it looks like a fairly decent street track actually.

Quote from: LjudOh, forgot about South Korea. Yes, ok, that's possible then. But we never know what will really happen.

Provisional 21-race calendar for 2014: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/09/05/mexico-in-new-jersey-out-on-21-race-2014-calendar/

India dropped and still no race in New Jersey; whilst in come Austria, Mexico, and Russia, the last two of these marked as subject to approval - as is the April-bound S. Korean GP.

Quote from: ChrillI'm sad to see the New Jersey still not making it. The track seemed to be a promising one. Hopefully there will be another chance for that circuit. 2015? We've already skipped one year.

Same here.  On the other side... I'm sad to see the Sochi track make it, such an awful design.

Just hoping they don't screw around too much with the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez.

Quote from: LjudBehold, Mr. Bernie claims the above 21-race list is NOT the provisional calendar. Basically, he's saying that such a provisional calendar does not yet exist and he most definitely didn't send it to the teams (since it doesn't exist).

Quote from: ChrillThen we have a decent prankster running around posting fake calendars. Or, you know, Bernie may not be telling the whole truth to the media.

No, not our Bernie.

Some shocking news straight out of Russia has the Sochi F1 complex costing almost double the original estimate of 142 million Euros, a figure which, by the sound of it, was just plucked out of the air: http://grandprix247.com/2013/09/26/cost-of-russian-grand-prix-massively-over-budget/

Still, be it 142 million or 260 million, they've still got a fecking awful looking layout.

Quote from: ChrillI could easily design a better track for less given the opportunity. Just sayin' yo.

Left-handed and with my eyes closed.


Been a few years since F1's last sojourn to Morocco, but it may be heading back that way; also news that Estoril is once again FIA certified to the highest standard; and that an F1-grade track is to be built on the outskirts of Russia, designed by none other than Hermann Tilke: http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38124:f1--morocco-joins-formula-1-queue-estoril-approved-tilke-to-pen-moscow-track&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157

Quote from: ChrillI've been waiting to hear Tilke design a new track. It is the best thing that could happen to Formula 1!

Abso-bloody-lutely.  I won't be satisfied until every circuit on the calendar is a Tilke-drome.

Quote from: LjudShould message him to remake Monte-Carlo and Monza ASAP!

Yes, yes, yes!  Tilkefy the lot of them!

Quote from: ChrillSomeone should let him have a go at the Green Hell too. We need to modernise it.

Quote from: LjudThey did it back in 80s, look what we ended up with. And then even Tilke had a go with it in 2002.

My God, I despise the current layout; same goes for Hockenheim, oh what a non-descript little circuit that has become.


Hey, you in the corner, come over here and marvel at the wondrous 2014 F1 calendar:

Mar 16 – Australia (Melbourne)
Mar 30 – Malaysia (Sepang)
Apr 6 – Bahrain (Sakhir)
Apr 20 – China (Shanghai)
May 11 – Spain (Barcelona)
May 25 – Monaco (Monte Carlo)
Jun 8 – Canada (Montreal)
Jun 22 – Austria (Red Bull Ring)
Jul 6 – Britain (Silverstone)
Jul 20 – Germany (Hockenheim)
Jul 27 – Hungary (Budapest)
Aug 24 – Belgium (Spa-Francorchamps)
Sep 7 – Italy (Monza)
Sep 21 – Singapore (Street circuit)
Oct 5 – Japan (Suzuka)
Oct 12 – Russia (Sochi)
Nov 2 – United States (Austin)
Nov 9 – Brazil (Interlagos)
Nov 23 – Abu Dhabi (Yas Marina)

Quote from: ChrillThere are no big surprises here. Mexico and the race just outside New York, not quite in New York but still trying to gain an advantage with a NY backdrop, are postponed to 2015 but they are both still "on".

Back-to-back from Japan to Sochi? Does not sound too great. Abu Dhabi at the very end? Stupid.

I'd have arranged the final part like this:
Italy
Russia
Singapore
Japan
Abu Dhabi
US
Brazil

But maybe the FIA don't have maps.

... or logic?


Bernie's pricing bankrupts Nurburgring, now he'll buy it: http://grandprix247.com/2014/01/16/ecclestone-makes-bid-for-historic-nurburgring/

Quote from: ChrillWell, that's logical. Run them down financially, purchase the leftovers. Great success. Even if he is forced out of F1, he knows how to stay in F1.

Perhaps next he could make an offer to the cash-strapped owner of the Hungaroring, whoever that may be: http://grandprix247.com/2014/01/19/hungaroring-boss-says-money-is-needed-for-upgrades/

Quote from: ChrillRed bull ring, Bernieburgring, Ecclestonering, etc.

Quote from: Ljud

Quote from: Chrill
Red bull ring, Bernieburgring, Ecclestonering, etc.

Vörösbikaring (or however you'd call it)

Quote from: Chrill

Quote from: Ljud

Quote from: Chrill
Red bull ring, Bernieburgring, Ecclestonering, etc.

Vörösbikaring (or however you'd call it)

What thell is a Vörösbika? :P

Quote from: Ljud

Quote from: Chrill

Quote from: Ljud

Quote from: Chrill
Red bull ring, Bernieburgring, Ecclestonering, etc.

Vörösbikaring (or however you'd call it)

What thell is a Vörösbika? :P

Any Hungarian speaker around? No? Eh.. Please? Please do confirm, that's how red bull would sound in Hungarian.

Quote from: Ljud

Quote from: Chrill

Quote from: Ljud

Quote from: Chrill
Red bull ring, Bernieburgring, Ecclestonering, etc.

Vörösbikaring (or however you'd call it)

What thell is a Vörösbika? :P

Any Hungarian speaker around? No? Eh.. Please? Please do confirm, that's how red bull would sound in Hungarian.

Look at all these quotes stacked up.

Quote from: ChrillBahrain is a night race. Did we tell you?

We?  Are you part of the FIA public information service... or a member of the Bahrain GP committee?

But yes, one was aware of this pointless gimmick.

Quote from: LjudI was not aware of that. On the other hand, one does not follow all the ridiculous news anymore nowadays.

I post most of the ridiculous stuff on the 'Snippets' thread to help keep you (and a few others) up to speed... my apologies for failing to cover this story.


Bernie keen for future Sochi GP to be night races: http://grandprix247.com/2014/02/24/ecclestone-pushing-for-socchi-night-race/

Personally, I prefer to have sunshine glinting off race cars.

Quote from: ChrillRumours placing a Baku race (Azerbaijan) for 2015 or 2016. Looking at this street circuit in Baku.. yeah, why not? It's quite narrow with some decent straights. It'd be a different street circuit for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TrS1GZpoBI

Matt posted on this last week, I think it's in the 'snippets' thread.  Can't say I'm enthused by the prospect of a street race in a country with practically zero interest in motor racing - just another oily cheque for F1's owners.

Quote from: ChrillWhile this is true, a track like that would interest me far more than some of the others we've seen recently.

I have almost zero interest in some of the recent additions so I guess you can put me in the same enthusiastic bracket.


Azerbaijan GP (though it may well be called the European GP) looks increasingly likely for 2016: http://grandprix247.com/2014/05/01/azerbaijan-set-to-announce-grand-prix-deal-for-2015/

Don't all cheer at once.

Edit: Azerbaijan race confirmed for next year: http://grandprix247.com/2014/05/08/ecclestone-confirms-azerbaijan-replacing-axed-korea-in-2015/

Quote from: ChrillI don't much mind a race in Baku but does anyone have a circuit in mind yet? There's a street circuit to be used, I assume, but will it be the same used in the Baku World Challenge?

From May 26th: "Ecclestone has confirmed that Azerbaijan will hold its inaugural race in 2015 on a street circuit in Baku.

AUTOSPORT understands that the Baku track will feature only the same start-finish straight that has been used for recent sportscar races, with the rest of the layout being completely different."

Great to see Montreal secure a ten-year deal: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114327


A 2015 Baku GP doesn't interest me half as much as F1's possible return to the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/07/22/five-year-mexican-grand-prix-deal-signed-report/


Baku GP pushed back to 2016: http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207068/1/azerbaijan-to-host-grand-prix-of-europe-in-2016.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

Autodromo H. Rodriguez neutered to meet safety standards: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/07/24/video-reveals-planned-changes-mexicos-f1-track/

Quote from: ChrillGoing through the arena, then? Interesting.

Quote from: EuroBrunIf a bit concerned about Mexico.  All comments are "great to be going back to a 'real' racing track".  I'm not against it, but i'm worried that after all the changes (not just losing the Peraltada), its gonna be an anti-climax.  To be fair, whilst the esses were great to watch cars run through (like Beckets / Maggots complex at Silverstone), I don't really remember them encouraging much overtaking. 
I hope i'm wrong, cos it should be a good vibe with a great atmosphere and packed grandstands.  I'm just not sure about that stadium section.  It seems a gimmick to get more punters in.

I'm with you there.  Not sure it's possible to concoct a less inspired solution for revising the Peraltada; couldn't they chop the straights down and shift the corner into the track, thus providing ample run-off?

Quote from: LjudNot sure either. Even if, they're probably not smart enough to think of something like that.

Quote from: EuroBrun

Quote from: Penfold
I'm with you there.  Not sure it's possible to concoct a less inspired solution for revising the Peraltada; couldn't they chop the straights down and shift the corner into the track, thus providing ample run-off?

Afraid not.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/19%C2%B024'15.1%22N+99%C2%B005'19.5%22W/@19.404652,-99.0925102,734m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/place/19%C2%B024'15.1%22N+99%C2%B005'19.5%22W/@19.404652,-99.0925102,734m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en)

In order to move the corner far enough to allow adequate run off they'd not just have to knock down the stadium, but also half the pit lane (in fact, the pit lane entry here is worse than Austria / Korea for cars slowing on the racing line!).  Then the oval (which I'm not even sure if its still used or not for racing - possibly lower formula) would be tiny, lol.

I was thinking that a slow chicane immediately before the Peraltada could help, cos then you would only be entering the corner at 70mph and not at 150mph.  It would then be a corner that you accelerate through rather than have to brake for (kinda like turn 3 at Sepang - struggling to find a better example, but you know what I mean - less Parabolica, more Curva Grande).

Quote from: ChrillThe oval is used in NASCAR

Quote from: MattIndeed: http://www.nascarmexico.com.mx/v8/calendario/

Although when one of the major NASCAR series went to Mexico, they actually raced on the road course.

Are the pits even up to F1 standard?  Time to demolish and rebuild further down the straight; the same goes for the inner section of oval.  Yes, those two inward-facing stands would have to go, but do they want to be an F1 circuit or a music venue? 

Quote from: EuroBrunI was thinking that a slow chicane immediately before the Peraltada could help, cos then you would only be entering the corner at 70mph and not at 150mph

Preferable to the stadium idea (although still strips the track of its defining feature), and at least run-off would be relatively easy to add round the second half of the corner, but who knows if the FIA would be satisfied with available space at the Peraltada's mid-point; or even with the corner being blind courtesy of that stand.

Good to see Melbourne extend hosting duties out to 2020 - and that they'll be day races.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-03/australian-grand-prix-to-stay-in-melbourne-until-2020/5644162

Quote from: ChrillPart of the F1 experience after a winter of waiting is getting up early for the Australian GP premiere. It's essential!! I'm glad to see it extended.

Quote from: ChrillIn response to earlier concerns of the redesign of Interlagos, we can breathe a sigh of relief. The new pits will be built but simply over the existing ones. The circuit appears to be remaining the same.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115292

I'd forgotten plans were afoot to screw with Interlagos.  Glad to see it's just getting a spruce-up instead.


Utterly insignificant when we've got Bianchi in critical condition, but the Baku GP course has been confirmed: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/10/07/azerbaijan-street-circuit-layout-2016-european-grand-prix-revealed/

Right-angle corners are the best....

Quote from: Chrill..I quite like the Baku circuit. I know the eastern part looks boring but the western section looks pretty fine. It's definitely built for two DRS zones but that's the best we can expect really.

Time to free up some space on the old F1 calendar as both India & Qatar shoot for a GP in 2017: http://www.grandprix247.com/2014/11/12/india-targeting-grand-prix-return-by-2017/ and Qatar: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/exclusive-qatar-poised-to-join-f1-calendar

Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Qatar... always great to see F1 expanding its geographical spread.  Perhaps Dubai next?

Quote from: ChrillDubai, Abu Dhabi... They're both part of UAE. Then again, that would not be an obstacle. Street race in Dubai, do it. We have a topic.

Hmm, perhaps two in the UAE is pushing things.  We'll just have to settle for three races on that small section of the Arabian Peninsula - unless Saudi Arabia wants in.


Qatar GP looking a done deal as bidders set to exploit Bernie's one weakness: http://www.grandprix247.com/2014/11/25/qatar-prepared-to-pay-78-million-for-2017-grand-prix/

Then there's the slightly less likely scenario of the Danes hosting a race: http://www.grandprix247.com/2014/11/26/denmark-wants-to-host-grand-prix-in-2018/

Back again to pondering which current tracks will get the old heave-ho, assuming twenty races remains the limit.  Mexico to fill the last empty slot next year, so then it's lose one to accommodate Azerbaijan in 2016 (Austria seems a likely candidate) and another for Qatar in '17... but who?

Quote from: ChrillSingapore has been rumoured to go a few times. The Germans might not afford to. China? Bahrain? This if wishful thinking, these last two.

Think we're stuck with Bahrain (money!) and I doubt Bernie wants to lose China from the calendar.  Germany was one I had in mind, what with the organisers (at both of the tedious tracks) being constantly on the verge of bankruptcy.


Under a deal with Bernie, the Bahrainis have final say on any new Persian Gulf races and they don't seem minded to let Qatar into the club: http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/01/13/bahrain-says-no-to-qatar-street-race/

Hockenheim instead of Nurburgring this year: http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/01/15/2015-german-gp-at-hockenheim-not-nurburgring/

Quote from: Chrillhttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015/06/16/f1-fanatic-round-up-1606-2/
Imola looking to replace Monza if Monza does not pull through.

In a perfect world, I would want both tracks. In a less than perfect world, Imola would never be able to match Monza. Imola is still a good track but it lacks the character it once had. Monza is the mother of characteristic circuits.

Losing marvellous Monza... another nail in F1's coffin.  Or we might only lose it half of the time, the circuit alternating with Imola to keep the sport in Italy: http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/06/18/ecclestone-confirms-imola-monza-alternation-option/

Well, it certainly worked fine for the German GP.

Quote from: Chrillquote author=Penfold]
Well, it certainly worked fine for the German GP.

[/quote]

Quote from: LjudBernie saying there's no good track in France, so definitely no GP there. Funny, I find Magny-Cours pretty interesting, but ok, it's in the middle of nowhere, Bernie hates that. But maybe he forgot about his own circuit? Then again, he wouldn't earn anything if he had to pay to himself to host the race...?

Yeah, I always thought Magny-Cours had a good flow to it; perhaps they should've had Tilke produce an exact replica in the desert of some oil-rich nation rather than letting him loose on a blank sheet of paper.

Quote from: Chrill

Quote from: Penfold
Yeah, I always thought Magny-Cours had a good flow to it; perhaps they should've had Tilke produce an exact replica in the desert of some oil-rich nation rather than letting him loose on a blank sheet of paper.

The sad/funny part of this is that it would be one of his better creations.

Really doubt it would happen, but some Dutch politicians are keen on getting F1 back to Zandvoort: http://planetf1.com/news/zandvoort-interested-in-f1-return/

Quote from: ChrillTake a look at this rendering of a narrow section of the Baku GP circuit:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/turn-9-10-baku-5-reup.jpg

Quote from: MattAnd I thought Rio in Forza 6 was bad...

Quote from: ChrillI can predict a neat pile-up with a resulting red flag. Are they really going to let Maldonado drive there?

Some new details on Baku: expected average speed, top speed, track width, stuff like that:  http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/01/27/baku-slow-lap-high-top-speed-and-very-narrow/

Good (normal) overtaking opportunity into turn one; doubtless to be ruined with DRS and its impossible-to-defend-against speed differentials.

Quote from: ChrillYeah, that front straight is nasty long. I quite like the narrower sections around corners 8-11 (the ones I highlighted above too!). This track is surely more unique than other new tracks, but it probably won't be... great.

Fortunately for it we have many tracks that fall well short of greatness....


Monza modification plan sees first chicane killed off and a new section supplanting Curva Grande: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/05/24/monza-planning-tear-first-chicane/


Austrian track could have its old 'west loop' reconnected for 2017: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125068

Quote from: ChrillImola moving closer to hosting the 2017 Italian GP. They've signed a deal with Bernie Ecclestone. It will only be valid if the Italian government approves the switch from Monza to Imola, so Bernie hasn't signed his own contract yet. Still, interesting development since Monza is going ever deeper into financial problems.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/imola-signs-agreement-with-ecclestone-for-italian-gp-798879/?s=1

Love both tracks but hard to picture F1 without Monza - guessing their financial woes kill off the circuit rejig plans mentioned a couple of posts back.

Quote from: ChrillNot necessarily. Abandoning F1 (at least for now) might actually save Monza. It would free up money to make the modifications for the track and make it suit MotoGP. That's not a bad race to host either.

Speaking of which, FINLAND is getting a MotoGP race for 2018. We haven't had a major motorsport event in Scandinavia since the 70s when Sweden hosted F1.

Has F1 been costing Monza money during its current, soon to expire, cut-price deal?  The problem is agreeing a new contract when it seems Bernie wants to squeeze the owners for $8 million more per annum than they're prepared/able to pay.

Quote from: ChrillI believe so, yes. Which is what this whole negotiation is about. The Italian government needs to increase funding by quite a bit for Monza to continue.

Quote from: Chrill2017 German Grand Prix? Probably not. Hockenheim has a contract to host it 2014, 2016, and 2018. Nürburgring have already abandoned the contract they had for 2015 and 2017. Hockenheim is not very likely to step in.

IN COMES A THIRD OPTION. Sachsenring:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34532.html

But here is what the track chief of Sahcsenring says about that:
http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/german-grand-prix/news/boss-plays-down-sachsenring-rumours_277935.html

Quote from: MattIt's also short and I don't see a lot of passing opportunities.

Quote from: ChrillYes. It's definitely more suited for MotoGP than F1. Such a short lap would give us laptimes of less than A1/Österreich/Red Bull ring.

Quote from: MattI don't actually have a problem with short tracks. It makes no difference how many laps there are if the track produces good racing, and the shorter lap is better for people at the track. That layout doesn't look like it would produce good racing though, that's the bigger problem.

Quote from: EuroBrunI would rather not German GP next year than the Sahcsenring. I can't see it offering a good race. The whole of sector 2 would be single file.  I prefer quality over quantity, so would rather that they focus on getting Hockenheim sorted every 2 years. There is no reason why somewhere like France (or even Imola) couldn't get a race every 2 years to alternate with Germany.  Variety would keep things interesting and help places that can't afford a race every year.

Off topic, but in my head it's pronounced "Saxon ring" and is far more brutal!

Quote from: Chrill

Quote from: Matt
I don't actually have a problem with short tracks. It makes no difference how many laps there are if the track produces good racing, and the shorter lap is better for people at the track. That layout doesn't look like it would produce good racing though, that's the bigger problem.

Well, I believe F1 has a track distance minimum of 4.3 km with Monaco the only exception since it is so slow. See Red Bull Ring, Hermanos Rodriguez, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, and Interlagos for example. They're all just a few meters longer than 4.3km. Sachsenring is definitely shorter than 4.3km.

On a related note, the longest ever F1 circuit was the Pescara Circuit at 25.8km which is 3 kilometers longer than the Nordschleife at Nürburgring and 3.5 times longer than modern-day Spa!

Got some people down on the Algarve eyeing up an F1 race: http://www.grandprix247.com/2016/10/03/portugal-have-f1-proposal-for-garnd-prix-in-algarve/

God only knows how they'd scrape together Bernie's hosting fee....

Quote from: ChrillAlgarve looks a little bit like Catalunya. Perhaps great to drive, but not good for overtaking.

Possible new track for Russia - no prizes for guessing the designer: http://www.globalconstructionreview.com/news/russia-considers-formula-1-cir7uit-s7t-petersb7urg/

Quote from: ChrillCould it be Mr. Tilke?

Wallop.  Straight in with the right answer.  Don't know how you did it.

But as stated no prize....

Quote from: ChrillSepang, Malaysia, claiming that the number of races in Asia has made life difficult, may not sign a contract extension after their current deal expires in 2018. That's two more races in Malaysia before we go bye bye.
http://www.grandprix247.com/2016/10/26/malaysian-grand-prix-will-happen-for-two-more-years/

Cynic in me wonders if these are the sorts of noises one might make as part of a negotiating strategy for any deal to extend their contract.

Quote from: ChrillDefinitely, but the Malaysian GP has been struggling for a while. If Bernie is still running negotiations in 2018, I could see them folding.

Malaysia won't extend F1 contract beyond 2018.  So it wasn't all just a cunning negotiating ploy: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/11/21/malaysia-will-not-extend-f1-contract-minister-confirms/

Quote from: ChrillMalaysia and Singapore may both go.

Let's replace them with classics. Imola for example.

Would be great but can't see that keeping Liberty's money men happy.

I see Germany is doubtful for 2017 unless they can agree another cut-price deal with Bernie/his new boss. 


New contract for Monza: http://www.grandprix247.com/2016/11/29/monza-signs-new-three-year-grand-prix-contract/


BRDC Board writes to members warning of "potentially ruinous risk" of Silverstone continuing to host F1 races; states it is considering triggering a break clause which would end their contract with FOM in 2019, a full seven years early: http://www.itv.com/news/2017-01-05/future-of-british-grand-prix-at-silverstone-at-risk-over-potentially-ruinous-costs/

Quote from: ChrillAnd Bernie says "I don't care. I have interest from two other possible sites to take over the British GP".

Typical load of old bollocks from Bernie.  As the BRDC is itself fully aware, there are no realistic alternatives to Silverstone: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jan/06/silverstone-alternatives-f1-british-grand-prix-ecclestone

Quote from: ChrillI would guess that perhaps a Grand Prix of London could be on the cards. They do seem keen on that.

Silverstone packs in more paying punters than any London street race could manage, so given that the Northamptonshire circuit loses money when hosting F1 the question has to be who picks up the tab for a race in the capital?  I can't picture the current Mayor of London stumping up millions each year for the privilege of closing off a section of London to make room for a (small) bunch of loud, CO2 spewing F1 cars.

Quote from: ChrillYeah. That khan bloke is busy promising no public transport strikes will occur, then watching such a strike occur. Poor boy.

Liberty (says it) wants to keep Silverstone on the calendar but won't budge on the 'potentially ruinous' hosting fees; but don't fear, because this is what they will do: "With Silverstone, we want to help them promote the race. When there is an NFL game in London, the shops in Regent Street are full of it. We want to do that sort of thing with the British Grand Prix and also make the event broader, with the race at the centre of a full weekend show."

Of course, that's what the British GP has been missing all these years: public awareness of the event.  Get some flashy promotion going and they'll be raking in the cash with sell-out crowds... oh crap, what do you mean they already attract capacity crowds of 140,000?  But then how is Liberty's plan anything more than useless noise?


Russian Govt. steps back from funding GP, expects a group of private companies to pick up the slack: http://en.f1i.com/news/88845-future-russian-gp-hands-private-investors.html

Quote from: MattAnnouncing your new Russian GP investor: The Trump Organization!

Quote from: ChrillSydney angling for Aussie GP, Melbourne officials say:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/motor-sport/formula-one/australian-grand-prix-new-formula-one-boss-opens-door-to-sydney-bid-to-hijack-event/news-story/dc6e6286e8705d3be3b3e938a30125f6

Several Aussies commenting on following site not sounding keen about such a switch: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/16/f1-fanatic-round-up-1602-2/

I'd prefer if the Trumps could be persuaded to buy Silverstone, because God knows nobody else wants to....


Canada & Russia each add five years to their F1 contracts: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/01/canadian-grand-prix-deal-extended-to-2029/


Now, did I need to copy all the old posts of this thread... not really; but there are a fairly small number of topics that will get any such attention so figured I may as well keep them in their entirety - except the 'snippets thread', way, way too big.

Peeps at Zandvoort commissioned a feasibility study into whether the economics of hosting an F1 race stack up: http://en.f1i.com/news/260155-zandvoort-studying-return-dutch-gp.html

Let me briefly ponder that very question....

Took a few seconds but I think I have the answer: No.

It can be viable if the Dutch government step in. Max Attack is a bit of a national icon.

Quite true.  Hardly any races (only Monaco?) are viable without Govt. support of some kind so why not add Zandvoort to that list.

Adelaide joins Sydney in sniffing around the Australian GP: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/adelaide-city-council-requests-f1-return-investigation-882870/

Wave goodbye to Malaysia (as a GP host, not the country): http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/07/f1-confirms-no-malaysian-grand-prix-2017/

With the addition of France & Germany to the calendar we will still be up a race on this year, although I assume the bankrupt German circuits will need some assistance from Liberty to keep the show on the road.

Anyone for Turkey? http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/11/turkish-grand-prix-return-carey-meets-turkish-president-erdogan/

I'd be OK with that. I like the circuit. Here's hoping the track can actually attract some spectators. In addition, I assume this is a political ploy from Erdogan. Europe's finest Dick-tator, he is.

Tourist numbers into Turkey have mysteriously nosedived in recent years so going to need to concentrate on selling it to the domestic market.

Quote from: Penfold on April 12, 2017, 12:28:52 AM
Tourist numbers into Turkey have mysteriously nosedived in recent years so going to need to concentrate on selling it to the domestic market.

I actually had tickets to fly to Turkey last year. We ended up going to Portugal instead. I didn't mind.

Long Beach to consider F1 over IndyCar: http://www.gazettes.com/news/so-moved-formula-or-indycar-long-beach-signs-race-study/article_6049e802-2477-11e7-8a21-2fd793b41e64.html


Read somewhere that the proposed New Jersey GP may leap back to life.  Fly in the ointment likely to be same as last time: financing the inevitable loss-maker.

I would be happy to see 3-4 races take place in North America every year, but no more than that. We already have Canada and COTA. One or two more, fine. Replace Sochi with Long Beach, replace Baku with New Jersey. That should be fine, then.

From some motorsport site:

"Imola remains on track for a future return to the F1 calendar.

Before current Italian GP host Monza's 2017 deal was signed last year, the now ousted F1 CEO Bernie Ecclestone had admitted Imola was in the running to snatch the historic Italian GP.

Now, Italy's authoritative La Gazzetta dello Sport reports that following an inspection by F1 race director Charlie Whiting, Imola has been given the necessary FIA circuit approval to host grands prix in future.

'I hope that soon there is the confirmation by national authorities so that we can implement at Imola the promises made by the president of the Aci (Automobile Club d'Italia),' said Formula Imola chief Uberto Selvatico Estense."


My chief concern is that an announcement of Imola's return to the F1 fold might just cause Chrill to explode with excitement....

Quote from: Chrill on April 23, 2017, 04:25:26 AM
I would be happy to see 3-4 races take place in North America every year, but no more than that. We already have Canada and COTA. One or two more, fine. Replace Sochi with Long Beach, replace Baku with New Jersey. That should be fine, then.

Late reply to this, but Mexico is also considered part of North America.

Sure, but it doesn't count ;D

Allow me to rephrase, then: 1 race in Mexico, 1 in Canada, 2-3 in USA

Do you speak Swedish? No?
http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/sport/motor/formel-1-i-kopenhamn-kan-bli-verklighet-2020/

Danish government is now officially backing a Danish GP from 2020. The funding comes from a mix of government and private interests, and a meeting has already been held with Chase Carey of the Liberty Media group. The fact that the Danish government is openly speaking of this now, mere days after their meeting with F1 bosses, shows that this is a real possibility.

Now, here's the drawback. It would be a city circuit around central Copenhagen. Built by. Yes. Him.

EDIT: English-speaking link but with less detail:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36803.html

I suppose there's only so much horror that He can wreak on a street circuit.  Question is, does Copenhagen lend itself to F1?

That's a question for a whole other topic.

I have been to Copenhagen and it certainly is a beautiful city. As long as you can find the space for pits and all the other facilities, then I see no reason why it wouldn't lend itself to F1. Waterside, big and small roads. Can definitely build an interesting route if we tried to. I'll see if I can get around to designing one myself.

I'll give that a shot at some point.

Now, back to the races with Silverstone guys now saying it is highly probable they will trigger an exit clause to free themselves from Bernie's ruinous fee escalator: http://www.planetf1.com/news/highly-probable-silverstone-will-end-contract/

The next step will be to negotiate an all-new contract with Liberty... hopefully parties should be able to agree terms.  I suppose it depends on how keen Lib Media is to keep a British GP on the calendar - because contrary to what Chase Carey has hinted at there is no viable alternative to Silverstone.

There's always the London GP. Its more possible than it has been in a while.

Same issue remains: who would cover its multi-million Pound losses?

Boris?

U.K. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson?

Break clause activated by BRDC: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/07/11/british-grand-prix-contract-end-2019-silverstone-triggers-break-caluse/

Denmark has posted a layout of their F1 circuit. Mine is better. At least we share a section, see orange insert. Or see the F1 street circuit topic for my own creation.

(https://s23.postimg.org/sussxakcb/onlformel-1-rute-kbh-01.png)

Some fairly hefty straights for a street circuit which at least means overtaking is possible, not sure what else to say... normal short, sharp corners that are almost inevitable with a road course.

It's not a very long circuit, and with straights like that we're looking at a laptime in the region of Red Bull Ring. If not less. We couldn't possibly allow a sub-60s lap time.

Sounding as if Long Beach will stick with IndyCar over F1: http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/142607-so-far-so-good-for-new-long-beach-indycar-deal

Could Argentina be on course for a 2019 return?
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/09/05/buenos-aires-could-use-long-circuit-for-possible-2019-return-whiting/

Charlie Whiting visited the track to see what is required for Buenos Aires to bring back GP racing. He said that there is not a lot required, mainly just modernising and bringing safety up to current standards which appears doable. Remains to be seen if the investment happens.

Using the long version of the track would be pretty cool, just don't trash it by whacking a chicane into either of the straights.  Leaves only the small matter of who in Argentina will fund this venture....

Hot on the heels of Singapore's contract extension, now China keeps itself on the F1 calendar until at least 2020: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/09/29/new-contract-keeps-chinese-gp-f1-calendar-2020/

Probably good venues for F1's international exposure and all that but can't say I care for either track, Singabore in particular.

I do quite like Singapore, if only for the immense physical strain put on the drivers. It's an exciting race because it's long and demanding.

Here we agree to disagree.  Twenty three corners, each one as instantly forgettable as the last....

On the topic of F1 circuits, Denmark is apparently moving closer to an actual offer put forth to Liberty. They do seem to be able to make it for the 2020 season, if not 2019. I'll be there.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-begins-talks-to-hold-dutch-street-race-963828/

Dutch street race? Amsterdam or Rotterdam looking likely.

I dislike how Liberty seems to prefer street races. I really dislike it. They rarely produce good racing.

Run it at night, that will guarantee excitement....

Then again, if they put one million tickets on sale then one million tickets would be sold. Which in itself creates a spectacle.

Whatever they do, hardly anyone in the UK will be watching once free-to-air coverage expires at the end of next year.

Free to air coverage is returning to French TV, I believe it was. Who knows if a new deal will be negotiated in the years to come for UK?

Not until 2025: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/354775/f1-uk-pay-tv-2019-24-deal-immutable/

It's on cable here, but ESPN just acquired the rights from NBC. Somewhat disappointing because NBC did a good job and we got our own commentary team, whereas ESPN stated that they'll use the world feed commentary.

Funnily enough, people do seem to prefer sports coverage with domestic commentators - makes me struggle to understand why Liberty Media has gone this route.

Problem with SKY having F1 is you have to take their basic package of channels and then add F1 on top, so that's about £500/year to have F1 and a bunch of channels I wouldn't watch.  I like F1, but not at £25/race.

It's the same in Sweden, where it comes out to about £35 per month which is roughly in the ballpark of Sky (£430ish a year). This gives me a lot of football (soccer), motorsports, ice hockey, and other sports. I do watch the other channels so it's acceptable to me.

This is provided by Viasat, who do offer basic packages too, but this can also be bought as an addition to your regular cable tv which is what I do. I pay these £35 per month for roughly 5-6 sports channels plus an app which allows them to broadcast a lot of stuff simultaneously. Viasat owns the rights to the Winter and Summer Olympics too, so that's a plus.

Quote from: Penfold on October 12, 2017, 05:02:27 AM
Funnily enough, people do seem to prefer sports coverage with domestic commentators - makes me struggle to understand why Liberty Media has gone this route.

Liberty wanted a short-term deal and NBC wanted a long-term deal, for one. That seems to be based in Liberty's interest in developing their own streaming service, which ESPN doesn't seem to care about. ESPN isn't doing any of their own production and apparently are paying nothing, or almost nothing, for the rights. It's just a placeholder.

That makes more sense from Liberty's perspective; I wonder how much they'd charge for streamed coverage.

Quote from: Chrill on October 12, 2017, 06:47:02 AM
It's the same in Sweden, where it comes out to about £35 per month which is roughly in the ballpark of Sky (£430ish a year). This gives me a lot of football (soccer), motorsports, ice hockey, and other sports. I do watch the other channels so it's acceptable to me.

I do enjoy a spot of football/rugby/cricket but really only bothered about seeing the big international contests, so having Sky would be all about watching F1.  Could go for their 'Now TV' offering which streams over broadband to a dedicated box/Smart TV.  You buy either a daily, weekly, or monthly 'Sports Pass' for unfettered access to all Sky Sport channels, no recording so a pain for certain races, but would mean more like £10/GP which is reasonable to me - and I'd force myself to watch a ton of other sports just to get my money's worth.

I watch ze PREMIER LEAGUE and ze CHAMPIONS LEAGUE in ze football. The occasional NHL game of ice hockey. And various random motorsports such as Formula 2, Formula 3, rally and rally cross.

Preparation for Copenhagen 2020 continues with F1 bosses taking a city day trip: https://www.crash.net/f1/news/888589/1/f1-bosses-set-latest-copenhagen-visit-next-week

I'd love a race in Scandinavia. Whilst the track looks shit, at least Copenhagen as a city is very beautiful.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-5255589/Formula-One-chairman-Chase-Carey-backs-Danish-Grand-Prix.html

Mr Carey with the moustache takes a liking to Copenhagen.

I'm sure it would look fantastic, but what about the racing?  F1 really only needs a handful of street circuits.

Assen track just needs some spit and polish to ready it for F1: https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2018/01/26/inspection-reveals-assen-needs-little-work-host-f1-race/

I'm sure it would look fantastic, but what about the racing?  F1 really only needs a handful of race circuits.

Not sure why anyone would be thinking that a GP in South Africa is likely, but now we know not even the Kyalami owners expect F1 to return: https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2018/02/07/kyalami-unlikely-to-return-to-f1-calendar-due-to-prohibitive-costs/

Suzuka and Spa F1 contracts up for renewal, German GP at risk of vanishing once more: https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/25/spa-suzuka-deals-f1-calendar/

No Silverstone after 2019, and everyone else seems to want a cut in their fees to sign new deals - or at least an end to the steep annual increases agreed during Bernie's reign (of terror). 

Are we going to Miami?

https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/05/02/miami-grand-prix-set-for-2019-f1-championship-slot/

The answer is: Maybe. They're going to vote on it. We shall see.

Hope the layout isn't as dire as the last time F1 raced on US streets.

Phoenix GP '89 and '90:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/f1wikia/images/4/45/Phx_TrackMap.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20170429211505)


Tweaked for '91:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/f1wikia/images/0/0e/PhoenixCircuit91.png/revision/latest?cb=20150801194925)

It's some sort of a mix between a penis and a submarine. I like it.

Miami bods vote 'yea' to host an F1 race... if a suitable deal can be made: https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/10/miami-approves-plan-to-open-f1-race-negotations/

Tragic news arrives concerning the Miami GP as we learn that only one small section of the proposed track has been ruled off limits by the authorities: https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/16/proposed-miami-grand-prix-track-faces-changes-due-to-land-dispute/

Well, the track is crap so that might be for the best.

Multiple choice question - Monza track owners want their annual hosting fee to be: (a) reduced by nine million Dollars, (b) kept the same, (c) increased by nine million Dollars? https://www.racefans.net/2018/06/09/monza-seeking-nine-million-dollar-cut-f1-race-fee/

I'm going to guess they want to reduce the fee. Do I win something?

Yes, a year's subscription of bad puns.

Three more years at Spa: https://www.racefans.net/2018/06/16/spa-extends-f1-race-deal-to-2021/

Well, that's one piece of good news.

Hopefully Suzuka will be able to haggle a new deal with Liberty; and Silverstone would be handy if they don't want British interest in F1 to completely disintegrate, although sod all people will be watching in 2019 once it drops off free-to-air TV.  Canada 2018 viewing figures: https://f1broadcasting.co/2018/06/11/f1-slumps-to-lowest-uk-audience-of-modern-era/  Just think, the 2015 race pulled in about five million British punters in what was its most recent (and last) FTA broadcast; F1 will be lucky to attract 1.5 million pairs of eyes next year.

Another tweak to the Miami GP track: https://www.racefans.net/2018/07/19/another-new-track-layout-proposed-for-f1s-miami-grand-prix/

Well, at least it's an improvement on the first two layouts.

It is that, but it's also "decision postponed until September" at which point inclusion in the 2019 calendar seems rather late.

As you said, all too late for Miami 2019: https://www.racefans.net/2018/07/23/formula-1-abandons-plans-to-hold-miami-race-in-2019/

Yes. And for 2020, we have a lot of venues interested. Miami, for sure, but also Copenhagen in Denmark and Assen in Netherlands. Plus we've heard whispers of Vietnam. Add to that the German GP was rather a success and if a fair deal can be negotiated with Liberty then that may well remain too.

The Dutch fans seemed like a big part of the success though, so if they add a race there, not sure if Germany will be viewed as necessary. Even though I think a German GP should always be necessary.

Granted, if all of that came true, there would be races in Denmark, The Netherlands, Belgium, France, and Austria, so German fans would have plenty of options.

Hockenheim agrees a 1-year contract for 2019, securing a 21-race grid (most likely) for next year:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/german-gp-agrees-deal-to-stay-on-formula-1-calendar/3167196/

Now we know that the Vietnamese Govt. backs a race on the streets of Hanoi: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor-f1-vietnam/vietnam-gives-green-light-to-f1-race-in-hanoi-idUKKCN1LG0L0

No clue as to when the race would be held, or even when a deal might be agreed, but it's certainly another one to add to the list of serious candidates.

We can scratch Copenhagen from the list of possible venues: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor-f1-denmark/copenhagen-scraps-plans-to-host-formula-one-race-idUKKCN1M11CU

That's a shame. I was looking forward to visiting Copenhagen, a beautiful city, in 2020. Ah well, I guess I'll have to go to somewhere boring like Spa.

Don't forget your wet-weather clobber.

Another day, another potential venue falls by wayside; today we seem set to wave goodbye to Miami: https://www.motorsportweek.com/joesaward/id/00308

Well, it was a truly horrible layout so I can't say I'm sad to see its demise.

Oh shame.

Hanoi has been approved for 2020, and Zandvoort has reportedly been offered a deal for the same year - they need to build some massive grandstands to accommodate all the Verstappenites.

Zandvoort? Yay!
Hanoi? Nay!

We just lost Malaysia due to lack of spectators. Why would a race in an even poorer country near there do any better?

It won't!  Perhaps authorities only intend to run it for a limited number of years to try and give their tourism industry a bump; take some up-front losses to promote the country through the medium of F1 - then politely decline to extend the contract once the job is done.

Race is now confirmed and track layout revealed; spoiler alert: it was designed by Tilke and features a near-one mile straight (shocker!) https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139884/hanoi-f1-circuit-details-revealed

Looks awful as always. Two roundabouts creating a Sochi-style sweeper, and they claim inspiration from Nurburgring, Monaco, and Suzuka. Bullcrap.

It'll be a failure, for sure. I am not too keen on these mega long straights.

I am even less keen than that on these mega long straights.  I also don't much care for street circuits... or pretty much anything ever designed by that Tilke chap.

I always liked Malaysia and Turkey. Shame we don't have them no more.

Of the modern tracks, I quite like COTA and I do approve of Baku these days. The first part of the lap is no fun, but the second part is so narrow and technical. That long straight is a negative aspect of Baku, but it's the one they chose to imitate in Vietnam.

Tilke was involved in making COTA, was he not? I know Baku is his.

I never much cared for the Malaysian circuit; I will credit Tilke for Turkey, that was a nicely crafted piece of tarmac.  COTA's all right, seems more of a homage to various tracks than something straight from the designer's imagination.  I've also always felt that it would flow better if the twiddly infield section (turns 12 to 17) got the chop, but Tilke seems determined to insert as many different types of corner as possible at every single track.

I'm sure we had a forum game for a while where we created our own street circuits. We might as well have a go at building our own permanent circuits too.

Could we see a Finnish Grand Prix in the coming years?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/study-finland-race-motogp-track/4325450/

They should break with tradition and go for a minimalist track, something like this:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/74/0c/bc/740cbcbda17f0ea2e22d0aa9f5aae14e.gif)

That's just the McLaren logo.

I thought it had a certain Finnish quality to it....

They call it the Kymi Ring after all. Surely Kimi Ring would suit your layout better.

Mine is the Shark Fin Autodrome....

No more Government money for the Mexican GP: https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/01/future-mexican-grand-prix-doubt-government-pulls-funding/

I don't much care for the Mexico race, save for the novelty of altitude racing, but I am rather fond of the Baku event... which is why I'm happy to report that the organisers have just added three years to their F1 contract: https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/05/baku-extends-f1-race-deal-by-three-years/

Yes, Baku have really turned around opinions. It's a bit of a bonkers race but it works for precisely that reason. Vietnam may well go down the same route, with an absolutely insane straight.

... special 'power boost' ramps with flaming hoops to leap through? 

I found the answer: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-MT6QYluPa4

It's a good start... now bring on the fire!

Quote from: Matt on February 05, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
I found the answer: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-MT6QYluPa4

That is the answer.

Financial Times reporting that Liberty Media and the BRDC are close to agreeing terms on a new Silverstone contract.  Not much detail out there at the mo, but you won't be shocked to hear that money is the sticking point: Liberty said to want £18 million/year; the BRDC angling for £15 million/year.  Meeting in the middle sounds fair enough.

As compared to the current deal at what per year?

According to Sky Sports:

£12m in 2010 --> £17m for 2017 --> £27m for 2026

The race ran at a loss of £4.8 million in 2016 (at what I'm guessing is a rough £16 million cost for hosting). If BRDC are offering £15 million per year, that seems rather close to reasonable.

... and then there's the inflation to consider: Seems highly unlikely that Liberty would accept a flat fee for duration of the contract, so question is what annual increase would be acceptable to both sides?  Bernie insisted on a ruinous 5% yearly hike, but if Liberty offers something like 2% per annum then that should be affordable for Silverstone - and more importantly for its patrons.

And then there's the financial chaos of Brexit ruining your economy and decreasing the number of foreign visitors.

FORZA EUROPA et cetera.

If Brexit is going to ruin our economy then you should be pointing to an increase in tourism as a result of currency devaluation - as happened after the referendum provoked a much needed drop in Sterling.  As it happens, I'm a firm believer in the benefits of considered regulation and free trade, so you're never going to convince me that being part of the EU's over-regulated, protectionist trade bloc is beneficial; I'm also a firm believer that the Euro can only survive in the medium- to long-term if there's a fiscal & debt union between its members.  I'm not sure what the role will be for non-Euro members when the majority are locked into something akin to a single federal state, but I would hazard a guess at it being one of ever more diminished influence over the EU's direction of travel.

Oh. I thought my "FORZA EUROPA et cetera" highlighted that I am very knowledgeable in this topic.

Indeed.

Those guys in Miami still not decided on whether to approve running a GP on their streets; in fact, they are so undecided that they have decided to postpone making a decisive decision until late May.  This is assuming they don't then decide to revise that decision and once more alter the date for a final decision.  More words saying the same thing (albeit with far fewer uses of 'decided'): https://www.racefans.net/2019/04/09/miami-grand-prix-decision-delayed-again/

Malaysia's Prime Minister, "Dr M" (surely he's in the next Bond movie?) wants the race back.

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/dr-m-says-f1-may-return-malaysia-next-year

I mean, why can't they do some sort of three-way alternation with Singapore and Vietnam? Hosting every 3rd year must be more worthwhile than annually, if cost is an issue.

Cost is always the issue.  That said, Singapore has plenty of cash and I can't see them being eager to share a race slot.  I guess it's possible that Vietnam's enthusiasm for hosting F1 will drop after a few years of handing Liberty many tens of millions of dollars, but in that case I suspect they'd just call it quits rather than alternating with Malaysia.

Singapore has been vocal about reducing cost though, going as far as saying "maybe we don't need F1 anymore, we got what we wanted out of it". Definitely a bargaining tool for future negotiations with Liberty, but I could easily see Singapore and Malaysia alternating. Fitting Vietnam into the mix is less likely, I admit.

The Miami GP promoters have given up on Bayside as a venue (hurrah!) and will now focus efforts on an area around the Dolphins' home ground: https://www.racefans.net/2019/04/24/miami-promoters-scrap-plan-for-downtown-f1-race/

Well, I can immediately think of one other track built around stadiums - Sochi. As it happens, it's definitely one of the greatest ever circuits. Ever.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/zandvoort-replace-barcelona-2020-schedule/4378916/?fbclid=IwAR26e8356rto8Ia2huuL9DpeAdFPqDoUoMv4yKb20vhthen5dIL8s6tU3Ug

Barcelona may go bye-bye after this year. Zandvoort may step in.

Rather like Magny-Cours, Barcelona always seems a great track to drive but tends not to be exactly jam-packed with overtakes, and that seems to be F1's overriding concern these days - perversely I now favour those tracks which were historically difficult/almost impossible to pass on, simply because DRS has removed the tension from so many races.  Anyway, umm, what was I saying?  Nothing really, just rambling away....  Right, Zandvoort, looks like it'd be pretty tricky for F1 cars to pass each other, so that's a positive.

Also in circuit news, Monza has agreed a deal with Liberty which stretches to the year 2025.  By which time the sky will be filled with flying cars, people will be living on the Moon, we'll all have Back To The Future-style hoverboards, and the U.K. Govt. will have introduced a nation-wide approach to recycling which doesn't rely on shipping our rubbish half way round the World for processing.  That last one might be too fanciful.

Details on the new Monza deal: https://www.racefans.net/2019/04/30/new-17-million-deal-to-keep-italian-gp-at-monza/

Race fee cut from $24 million to just $17 million.  Hopefully Silverstone gets offered a similar percentage reduction.

Quote from: Penfold on May 01, 2019, 01:58:26 AMand the U.K. Govt. will have introduced a nation-wide approach to recycling which doesn't rely on shipping our rubbish half way round the World for processing.  That last one might be too fanciful.

I think we process a lot of your garbage in Sweden, because our recycling plants are too efficient and we have excess capacity to process the garbage of others. ;D

At least we know it will get recycled/burnt for energy in Sweden, God knows how much (or little) of the plastic we've sent to China/Malaysia/Vietnam over the years has actually been cleanly processed.

See, that's the problem isnt it. A nation state could go "we don't do X or Y" but they completely fail to take into account that their shopping behaviours cause other countries to do X or Y instead.

Brazil's President says a new track in Rio will host F1 from next year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48212783

I'm hoping it all falls through, because F1 without Interlagos is just that little bit less joyful.

Well, there are a few issues here.

1) The Rio track has not even begun construction, yet it is expected to host an F1 race 18 months from now?
2) Bolsonaro is not actually part of the team having the track constructed, that is handled by the local municipality
3) We (read: Christopher) don't want to leave a lovely Interlagos track

Carey says that two 2019 races will be missing from the 2020 calendar:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2020-calendar-two-new-venues/4384557/

It will be one of these:

1: Spain
2: Mexico
3: Germany

And possibly Interlagos -> Rio in regards to what we mentioned yesterday.

I can see us losing Spain for Netherlands and then also losing Mexico.

Agree that ditching Spain & Mexico to make room for Vietnam & the Netherlands seems the most likely outcome.  Can't say I'll be that bothered about losing those two from the calendar, although I'm also not wildly excited to gain another street circuit - and I'm slightly worried that F1 will screw with Zandvoort in some heinous fashion.

If F1 does not screw with Zandvoort, it will not be a very good track for F1. So there's that. It just isn't a great fit, is it?

Aye, it's a quandary all right.  I'm hoping they limit themselves to lengthening the main straight to give the F1 boys a better shot of overtaking, but I'm expecting them to make at least three significant changes and fundamentally alter its character.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/zandvoort-secures-return-dutch-gp/4388156/

It has been confirmed. Zandvoort for 2020. No word yet on what they may do to make the track suitable for modern GP racing.

Hopefully the 2021 rules will make modern GP racing suitable for old-style tracks.

Now, what we still really want to know is which two tracks are being shown the door for 2020.  Assuming that a deal is done to keep Blighty on the calendar, which of the remaining contenders (Spain, Germany, and Mexico) has the least shallow pockets with which to entice Liberty?

I will tell you. These numbers are certain, not at all estimates by me.

Chance of remaining on the 2020 calendar:
Silverstone - 90%
Barcelona - 60%
Hockenheim - 45%
Mexico - 5%

So in other words, I think we will lose Hockenheim to Zandvoort and Mexico to Hanoi. In theory, we could lose Mexico and Silverstone, but I find that unlikely.

And I guess that would give this calendar:

Australia
Bahrain
China
Vietnam
Spain
Monaco
Netherlands
Canada
France
Austria
Britain
Hungary
Belgium
Italy
Singapore
Azerbaijan
Russia
Japan
USA
Brazil
Abu Dhabi

21 races. I moved Azerbaijan from spring to fall, to make room for Vietnam in Asia.

Gets the thumbs up from me.

The Zandvoort Circuit will undergo a number of key changes in order to host the Dutch Formula One Grand Prix in 2020, event sporting director and former F1 driver Jan Lammers has confirmed today.

Speaking at the press conference announcing the race was returning to Zandvoort after a 35 year gap, Lammers described how the circuit configuration will be changed to meet F1 standards.

He told reporters: "The start/finish line will be brought forward a little bit towards Tarzan to ensure that the grid is clearly visible from the main grandstand," said Lammers.

"The exit of Gerlachtbocht will be widened for safety reasons, and the Hugenholtzbocht will be widened on the inside to allow more space and allow higher speeds going towards Scheivlak.

"Then we get to the Hans Ernst Bocht, of which the second part will be shortened and widened to improve flow through the corner and reduce its stop-start character and increase speeds.

"The Arie Luyendijkbocht, formerly known as Bosuit, that will be modified and slightly banked to permit full-throttle through there. This will make it similar to the final part of Brazil, where you can go through with open DRS. It won't be easy, but possible, I think."

Plus map for reference:
(https://www.racingcircuits.info/assets/components/phpthumbof/cache/Zandvoort99.ebb178c48cf19ed17e74b1dfddd0c589.png)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Roznaae7J5M

Well this looks incredibly narrow, especially the first half of the lap. Honestly, Zandvoort needs to be updated heavily in order to suit F1. Can it be done without completely wrecking? I see why you are now concerned, Penny.

I see maybe 1.5 passing zones. The end of the front straight and then maybe into Hans Ernst Bocht.

Aero has destroyed racing everywhere. The cars are way too stuck, which makes it impossible to get runs on people, not to mention the aero wash problem. Power needs to exceed grip. Lose the super wide tires, lose the super long cars, cut the areas for aero development. Make the cars edgy again. It doesn't matter if the lap time is slower because cars that are stuck look slower than cars that aren't anyway, and far less spectacular. I think this is part of why people have such high regard for drivers like Senna. Even the best cars moved all over the place and looked hard to drive. In contrast, even the worst car today looks smooth almost everywhere.

Kind of got away from the topic at hand, but the point is that cars that can't race won't put on a good show anywhere, Zandvoort or otherwise.

I really don't mind the super wide tyres, they are part of making the cars look aggressive. The aerodynamics is the issue. The 2021 regulations, unless they become too watered out due to teams arguing, will rectify it.

Hopefully the 2021 regs. will be immune from the teams' lobbying efforts.  Budget cap is another matter.

The 2021 regs will definitely not be immune. This is F1 after all.

Fair point.  I'd settle for largely immune. 

Here is an unofficial interpretation of the changes suggested yesterday to Zandvoort.

(https://scontent.fbma2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60514678_2348143321919365_5540681246914379776_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent.fbma2-1.fna&oh=6ae94aab30c8d54f8d780d4a079fd76d&oe=5D5A8DB8)

Seems okay.  Tweaks rather than wholescale changes: essentially re-profiling two corners and adding some banking to a third, all in the name of allowing higher speeds - and for safety in the widening of Gerlachtbocht.

I would have preferred a start/finish line further back, if anything. That would allow a longer run to the first corner. However, assuming one can follow through Hans Ernst, the start/finish could well lead to overtakes courtesy of using DRS through the final banked turn.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/zandvoort-banked-corner-overtaking/4390065/

No word on ruining the run-offs with large swathes of tarmac, instead saying that the unforgiving nature of Zandvoort adds to the spectacle as it does in Baku or Monaco.

I hope they stick to that.  Interesting comment about how short pit-stops will be - unless you drive for Toro Rosso - and that this might encourage teams to make an extra stop.


Meant to post that Liberty Media has been chatting to people in Morocco about the potential for a race.  Obviously still early days but it could be an interesting addition.  Clicky link thing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48299978

Being on every continent again would be a great addition.

Definitely agree. South Africa or Morocco does not matter much, but a world championship would benefit from being present in Africa seeing as that is a part of the world.

Terms agreed for five more years of F1 at Silverstone:  https://www.racefans.net/2019/07/10/new-deal-announced-to-keep-british-gp-at-silverstone/

Couple of bits of circuit news: Melbourne's contract is extended by another couple of years taking the Aussie race to 2025.

Also, and this is just fantastic to hear, F1 has said that Zandvoort's gravel traps are part of its heritage and should stay just as they are: https://www.racefans.net/2019/07/19/no-asphalt-run-off-at-zandvoort-f1-wants-heritage-gravel-traps-to-stay/

Well, Zandvoort with a potential banked final corner will be tight and twisty but at least it will look Zandvoorty. And be a challenging train race.

Next year's race may be iffy in terms of overtaking, but come 2021 cars should be able to follow nice and close with only a small (5 - 10%) impact on downforce.  Twenty months to go....

2020 will definitely feel like a gap year. I love the raw speed of the current cars, every lap record excites me, but the racing suffers badly on most circuits. We have had better races in 2019 than 2018 though, the small change to the front wing feels like it helped a little.

Some of the drivers seem a bit unsure on that, but I'm convinced the tweaks have helped them run closer together.

Hey, maybe it isn't the front wings, but we do have better racing this year even though I'm rather bored with the Mercedes dominance. Which looks set to continue into Germany, by the way. Hungaroring could be a track that favours Red Bull and certainly a track that will hurt Ferrari. Spa and Monza, that is where Ferrari will be difficult to stop.

I'm sure the team's strategists or Seb will find a way.

Edit: I am looking forward to the Hungaroring.  Fingers crossed for a sweltering Sunday afternoon.

Appears that we are stuck with the Mexican GP for at least another year: https://www.racefans.net/2019/08/07/mexican-gp-to-stay-on-f1-calendar-says-promoter/

Looks like 22 races in 2020.  Fingers crossed we can get that up to 30 races within a decade and be banging them out one every week by 2043.

Here's one candidate for hitting that 30-race mark: Saudi Arabia!  Plans are afoot to construct a brand new city and on its outskirts will sit a rather long F1 circuit: https://www.racefans.net/2019/08/08/saudi-arabia-planning-spa-beating-longest-f1-track-for-its-first-race/

Yes, me again.  Mexico GP gets a three-year extension: https://www.racefans.net/2019/08/08/f1-confirms-new-three-year-deal-for-mexican-grand-prix/

Mexico City Mayor Claudia Sheinbaum comments on the new deal:

"The presence of Formula 1 in the city for further three more years, was achieved for the first time through a new financing model in which public resources are not used.  The Mexico City government will be an intermediary, creating a trust that will raise the private investment required to deliver this international event.  The price of the tickets will remain the same as in previous years."

So all they need is to find private investors willing to pay Liberty tens of millions of Dollars every year.  Sounds simple enough.

Quote from: Penfold on August 09, 2019, 01:51:08 AM
So all they need is to find private investors willing to pay Liberty tens of millions of Dollars every year.  Sounds simple enough.

The real Slim Shady could stand up and pay for that. He's already sponsoring Perez.

I'll amend my previous post: So all they need is to find private investors willing to pay Liberty tens of millions of Dollars every year.  Sounds tricky but feasible right up until Perez leaves F1.

We (F1) keep(s) Barcelona for 2020: https://www.racefans.net/2019/08/27/f1-confirms-one-year-deal-to-continue-spanish-gp/

Circuit owners hoping this leads to a longer contract. 

We seem to be heading for a 22-race calendar, with what Mexico and Spain confirmed as well as Vietnam and Netherlands joining the grid. Only Germany leaving, but two new races joining.

We kind of need to lose at least one race, do we not? 22 is unprecedented and sounds like a bit of a stretch.

It does, but I've no idea who we (F1) might cast adrift.  Except for Germany, all the top candidates for getting the boot have now been confirmed for next year - I don't know of any other venues that are out of contract. 

Two more races at Sochi and then F1 needs to find a new home in Russia: https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/26/russian-grand-prix-expected-to-leave-sochi-after-2020/

What a tragic loss to the world of motor racing.

Great, that frees up for a race in downtown Moscow!

Moscau Moscau, Russland ist ein schönes land!

EDIT: No, it seems they may be building an actual circuit in St. Petersburg (not Florida). That's close to Finland and fairly close to me. I would not mind that.

Whatever they build, it surely can't be worse than the Sochi layout... right?

It truly cannot be worse. It really can't.

Looking at Tilke's creations, I don't think he has ever developed something which Sochi could trump.

We're going to Miami (probably): https://www.racefans.net/2019/10/15/f1-claims-it-has-agreement-to-race-at-miamis-hard-rock-stadium-in-2021/

The circuit diagram shown in that link looks OK to me, surely better than most earlier Miami suggestions. Judging from the run-off around the corners, it will run counter-clockwise. Tricky first two corners, then, very sharp. Bound to knock a front wing off.

I do agree that the layout looks better than those Miami harbour efforts.  I mean you're not going to get a startling mix of corners on a street course, but at least there aren't twenty-odd tight turns for the cars to navigate - what sort of idiot would design a track like that!

Quote from: Penfold on October 17, 2019, 01:47:29 AM
I do agree that the layout looks better than those Miami harbour efforts.  I mean you're not going to get a startling mix of corners on a street course, but at least there aren't twenty-odd tight turns for the cars to navigate - what sort of idiot would design a track like that!

Here's a man named Hermann. He would.
(https://www.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/tilke-696x463.jpg)

That's the chap!  :)

Miami announces the final design for their very Tilke Formula E track:

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/racefansdotnet-miami.jpg

Oh, it's for F1? Huh. But it looks so dull.

I guess there are at least two overtaking spots on there, so that's nice. Assuming I read the direction correctly. Do we race counter-clockwise here?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/zandvoort-holding-back-data-from-teams/4664577/

A track I'm looking forward to a little bit more. Zandvoort deliberately not giving teams enough data, to prevent them setting cars up perfectly for the "new" race.

With the rebuilds, even though Zandvoort will likely be a track where it's as easy to overtake as at Hungaroring, it will be a spectacular event in terms of attendance. Personally I'm curious about that banking. And hey, if Hungaroring can produce great races so can Zandvoort.

In this era of DRS cruise-bys, I have grown to appreciate those awkward tracks such as Hungaroring which continue to present a serious challenge for any would-be overtaker.  Happy to add Zandvoort to the club of DRS-nullifiers.


As for Miami... yes, counter-clockwise the cars will run.  With the exception of a couple of the tight corners and the chicane that leads on to the back straight, the layout is not too bad.  I mean, there's nothing startling about it, but it is a big improvement on the original Bay Area proposal; the negative is that we've shifted away from the water and anything that really screams "Hey, we're racing in Miami!". 

It'll probably run for 3-4 years before being cancelled due to low spectators anyway, so we won't get to "enjoy" it for long.

Zandvoort banking:
(https://scontent-arn2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/85035274_3386421444720003_5777748087145496576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=rP_gTLVhn-UAX8tANoL&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-2.xx&oh=2f3c2c70c64bc435b863a93a2f96baff&oe=5F00BD5F)

Looking forward to the race, and even more so for '21 with the introduction of our (F1's) new racing-friendly motors.

Saudi Arabia on next year's calendar: https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/05/official-saudi-arabia-to-hold-first-f1-race-in-2021/

What better place for F1 to really push its positive human rights message #WeRaceAsOne.  Just hope the well paid, and lovingly cared for migrant workers get all the building work done in time.

I see a pretty big group of F1 fans dismayed at this. F1 will follow money, and nothing will happen unless the race is properly boycotted. I wonder if Lewis is currently negotiating a "skip Saudi" clause. Could throw in Bahrain, UAE, and China with that too. He'd win the championship regardless, right?

Ha! I'd love to see it, at least Bottas would be in with a chance.  As you well know, it's not going to happen because Merc wants to keep selling cars in those countries (esp. China), but what a political statement it would be for Lewis if he did.  Perhaps if he could just get out of the Saudi one as you suggest; would Merc agree to that as a condition for him racing next year?  Interesting thought.

We (F1) might be sticking with Interlagos for at least five more years: https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/12/interlagos-closing-on-new-five-year-f1-race-deal/

Fingers crossed.

We did need some good news regarding the calendar. Interlagos is a lovely little gokart-like F1 circuit.

Always takes me back to the days of Senna.  One of my top five on the calendar.

Some track tinkering being considered for Melbourne: https://www.racefans.net/2021/02/01/track-changes-planned-to-improve-racing-in-novembers-australian-gp/

Most make sense, including change negative cambers and widening the pit lane as well as some corner entries. The old rundown surface presents a different challenge. Putting down a modern surface will remove one of the unique aspects of Melbourne.

Agreed, a street circuit's bumps and atypical asphalt mix are something to be cherished.  Also hoping they don't go too nuts with widening corners...

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a35497116/f1-stefano-domincali-says-miami-market-in-play/

Could F1 be racing in Miami? Maybe. But they are also looking at Vegas and Indianapolis for a second F1 race.

As long as it's not the Caesars Palace parking lot, Vegas would indeed make sense for F1.

Not always easy to get a decent layout on roads (or in parking lots!), but hopefully any Vegas circuit will have fewer 90-degree corners than the old Phoenix GP.

Oh wow. That is a poor layout.

You designed a reasonable Vegas circuit a few years back, I recall.

(https://i.imgur.com/8y5yGas.png)

I had a go myself.

This goes right through Caesars Palace Casino as well as the Bellagio and the Aria Resort and Casino (part of the CityCenter complex). It then snakes its way through smaller roads West of the interstate, and then heads back to the South Las Vegas Blvd.

It's a reasonable 5.19 kilometers (3.22 miles). In typical Tilke-esque manner, there are some long straights with heavy braking zones to enable overtakes. There's also an unnecessarily slow section right within the Aria Resort and Casino, it will be absolutely great for PR reasons but perhaps not for the racing. Maybe. We'll see.

It runs clockwise, with pits in the Northwest part there.

This layout does allow all casinos to remain operational throughout the weekend, albeit with fewer parking spots I suppose.

Can't remember how my Vegas layout went, but your one here is pretty spiffy.  Always going to end up with a healthy number of sharp corners on a street circuit, but you've managed to inject some variety into proceedings whilst incorporating the main Casinos, and that infuriatingly fiddly section would make Tilke proud!

Quote from: Penfold on February 19, 2021, 08:30:28 AMand that infuriatingly fiddly section would make Tilke proud!

I doubt he has built a circuit where it crosses itself TWICE. He'd definitely be impressed.

Here's that twiddly bit from ground level. Put some drones in the air, race at dawn. Boom.

(https://i.imgur.com/SNrN8bi.png)

That is a twiddly bit most delightful.  It puts all other twiddly bits to shame....

Barcelona Turn 10 almost back to its original form: https://www.racefans.net/2021/02/23/catalunyas-new-turn-10-has-more-gravel-run-off-and-historical-shape/

Now if they would just do something about that horrible final chicane...

Turn 10 was never the issue. If anything, it was vaguely an almost-place-to-overtake. The final chicane, as you say, is absurd.

The Miami Grand Prix has now been confirmed for 2022:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/miami-grand-prix-joins-2022-calendar/6327301/

I think we've discussed this layout in the past, it doesn't look awful and could likely produce some typical modern-style racing. The 2022 cars should look pretty neat going through that sweeping section after turn 1 especially.

Doubtless not the most scenic part of Miami to race through, but a new venue is always interesting and it does seem to be a reasonable layout.  Honestly, I'm just looking forward to seeing the '22 cars in action, anywhere but Caesars Palace car park will do me....

Definitely could be a decent track, but I'm afraid the backdrop will be absolutely awful. It's a stadium with a car park around it. At least do the Foro Sol thing and drive those cars through the arena! There must be a viable route through the catacombs somewhere! ;D

I'm expecting carefully chosen camera angles to preserve the mystique of racing in Miami; no such escape for anyone sat in a grandstand...

https://www.racefans.net/2021/05/10/fia-looking-at-removing-catalunyas-chicane-for-future-f1-races/

F1 could skip that awful chicane at Catalunya if they return in 2022.

I however gave myself the opportunity to redesign the circuit a bit. Not too much, but I did a few things to slow down a corner or two in order to aid the ability to follow.

(https://i.imgur.com/MCFWQJR.png)

Corner 1 is tightened to a more severe braking spot, which also slows down turns 2 and 3 makes it easier to follow through those.
Turn 4 is extended to allow drivers to follow through 3 and dive past into 4.
Turns 5-8 are not changed.
Turn 9, the righthander onto the back straight, is softened to enable a higher cornering speed into Caixa (Turn 10).
Turn 10 is extended and almost a hairpin, once again making it a prime overtaking spot.
Turns 11-12 are not changed.
Bypassing the chicane, we then have a left-kink just before the final corner, which takes onto the now very long start finish straight. Definitely an overtaking spot.

God knows Barcelona could do with some tweaking, and I like most of your suggestions - not really a fan of hairpins! - but you just know people would be up in arms about cutting trees down to alter the last corner....

Looks interesting Chrill, although I genuinely have no issue with Turn 1 / 2 /3, just a shame that they can't get a faster run into it what with the stupid chicane at the end.

As much as I sound a party pooper, I think these track redesign type threads are fun, but its rare that anyone will ever want to redevelop where permeant structures will need tearing down.   Simply too expensive (referring to the last corner).  I think cost is gonna be the thing that limits any redevelopment of Catalunya besides reinstating the original last corners, maybe adding some tech pro barriers. 

Its a shame tho.  I'd like to see them widen turn 4 and apply some banking (not drastic), but enough to allow two lines around the corner.  Can't see it ever happening, as its probably too structural.

In regards to banking, I'm really curious to see how Zandvoort will fare especially in 2022 with the supposedly easier-to-follow aerodynamic regulations.

Imola!  Terms of a four-year deal said to have been agreed, which is rather pleasing to hear.  Rumour has it that Paul Ricard will get the boot to make space for the Gran Premio del Made in Italy e dell'Emilia-Romagna

I mean, I clearly prefer Imola. But France, with two (3 if you count Leclerc) drivers and a team, should they not have a pretty much guaranteed slot on the grid? Let Paul Ricard trial the full Mistral straight for 2022, and if the race is still nothing in these 2022-cars, then go Imola for 2023.

Don't try and bring logic into the proceedings!  Actually I think still nothing is confirmed on an Imola/Paul Ricard swap, but with the Chinese race again in doubt next year, there might be opportunity for both European tracks to grace the calendar.

Oh, and I see Vegas is once again being talked up as a potential race. I'm sure they'd carve a thrilling course out of the local roads....

Indeed looks like no China for 2022, so France gets to stay for another year. We'll see if Imola or Paul Ricard gets booted out for China come 2023, the Shanghai circuit is fine and it's surely a location F1 is keen to stay in. Especially if Alfa Romeo slots Zhou next to Bottas.

F1 is going to Vegas.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-las-vegas-night-race-2023-saturday/9462772/

Let's be honest here. The circuit is not better than what we designed in this very forum in the past.

Still, F1 is all about glitz and glamour. A night race in Las Vegas fits perfectly. With the current upturn of popularity, thanks to the Netflix documentary or to Lewis Hamilton's exposure or to whatever other reason, a 3rd race in USA makes perfect sense. Across a similar land mass in Europe, we have what, 10 races?

Racing down the Strip, reaching speeds of up to 210 mph (340 km/h), all the lights of the city bouncing of the cars? There will easily be overtakes on this circuit, it's a pretty basic layout. A night race will benefit US viewers and I don't mind staying up all night to watch it. Racing on a Saturday? Awesome, I have 24 hours to fix my sleep schedule before work.

All in all, great move by F1. Hopefully this race punts Paul Ricard off the calendar.

I decided to superimpose the official circuit on two of our previous Vegas attempts. At least we're in the right area, no?

Red and yellow are two of my earlier layouts, and green is the official announced circuit.

(https://i.postimg.cc/1Rj8HqV3/lasvegas-f1-2023.png)

Couldn't do a Vegas race and not use the Strip, but obviously easier for them to hook round to the East to run through some back streets and a couple of car parks/undeveloped areas - hard to tell exactly what from the aerial shot - than close off the main road to the West.  All about the lights and the glitz anyway, and timing should be good for the domestic market; and for me extended highlights will likely be late morning on Sunday, which is easier than the midnight slot US races usually inhabit.

I'll definitely wake up early to catch the first race. It'll be Sunday morning, around 6am, in Sweden. This'll be the first Saturday race since the mid-1980s, so I suppose Friday practice on a Thursday?

https://carbuzz.com/news/formula-1-set-to-lose-its-most-iconic-circuit

Could Monaco be on the way out? The racing is awful for sure, but the spectacle of qualifying in Monaco alone is worth visiting.

Just haggling over length of new contract, says promoter guy:

The president of the Automobile Club de Monaco has dismissed reports the principality is at risk of losing its grand prix.

The 2022 Formula 1 calendar is due to feature a record 23 races once a replacement for the cancelled Russian Grand Prix is found. Two further events will join the schedule next year, in Qatar and Las Vegas.  The announcement of the latter last month, which will push F1 close to its current limit of 24 races per season, prompted speculation some European rounds may be unable to renew their contracts. Monaco is among the venues seeking a new deal.

Speaking at a meeting of the ACM, president Michel Boeri rejected claims the race could be dropped from the calendar.

"People have been talking about supposed difficulties after this year in organising grands prix, Liberty Media's financial demands being too high for Monaco, and that our grand prix is going to disappear," said Boeri in comments widely reported by local media. "It's not true. We are still in talks with them and now we have to materialise by signing a contract. I don't know if the contract will last three or five years, but these are just details."

In regards to Monaco. Charles Leclerc suggested turning left before the tunnel to give us a longer straight and create an opportunity for overtaking. I obliged.

The yellow is the current layout, the red is my suggestion including Charles' long run. I also added an orange to further extend and further give a higher speed passage. It skips the Fairmont/Loews/Hotel hairpin, so virtually impossible to get approval.

(https://i.postimg.cc/brsk9zb1/f1-monaco.png)

Personally I wouldn't want to lose the Massanet/Casino section, but I see what you're doing with the extended run down into Mirabeau - though road might need smoothing! Longer run into tunnel is interesting, wonder what speeds they'd be hitting?

According to my simulations, not that much more than today. Maybe 290 in qualifying, 280 in race.

My simulations, of course, is me guessing at random.

They were hitting 180 mph (290 km/h) this year, but not until out of the tunnel, I was thinking more how a longer run would boost speeds in the tunnel itself - think they do 160 mph through the curve now so it might add another 20 to that.

F1 boss guy in South Africa for race chat: https://www.racefans.net/2022/06/13/f1-ceo-domenicali-visits-kyalami-for-talks-over-2023-race/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/five-f1-season-opener-australian-gp/10322834/
Australia remains on the grid until at least 2035, that's a long time! During that time, they will host the opener five times including 2024 and 2025.

Now that is a long contract... Good news though, is one of my favourites.  Not sure about Melbourne because of the logistics of shutting everything down, but hopefully Formula E will be using a range of F1 circuits before that contract expires - bit of a random segue, thought just popped into my head

Right. F1 is aiming for 24 races next year, but we have to fit that around several (potentially) new venues. We know Las Vegas is joining. We think South Africa/Kyalami is coming back. Qatar is also rejoining for 2023, as is China.

That means at least one race, maybe two, is leaving us. Unfortunately, that race is not the Circuit de Catalunya. Rumour has it Nice is vying to steal the French GP from Paul Ricard as well. Could Nice replace both the French and Monaco GPs? Or is Spa heading out the door again?

It kind of seems we're losing either Spa or Monaco. Neither is acceptable.

We're at 21 this year, so one to lose if those you mention all come on board... my guess would be they start to alternate Spa with a French GP. Pleases nobody except Liberty who get to say that both are still on the calendar.... Monaco too prestigious to be kicked in my opinion.

I'd take an alternating Spa. It'd make those weekends more special, if anything.

I'd prefer an alternating China/Bahrain (or Singapore!) myself, the fewer of those the better