News:

Welcome to the MF1 Forum

Main Menu

2018 Season - Rate the Drivers

Started by Chrill, March 21, 2018, 11:40:24 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Chrill

Before I enter my Belgian scores in my dear document, let's check out some of the stats at the HALFWAY POINT IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP (sort of):

Leaderboard:

1. Fernando Alonso, 7.906
2. Sebastian Vettel, 7.844
3. Charles Leclerc, 7.533
4. Daniel Ricciardo, 7.407
5. Nico Hulkenberg, 7.321
6. Kimi Raikkonen, 7.207
7. Valtteri Bottas, 7.063
8. Pierre Gasly, 7.000
9. Lewis Hamilton, 6.938
10. Kevin Magnussen, 6.875
11. Carlos Sainz, 6.813
= . Sergio Perez, 6.813
13. Marcus Ericsson, 6.655
14. Esteban Ocon, 6.643
15. Brendon Hartley, 5.857
16. Stoffel Vandoorne, 5.677
17. Max Verstappen 5.500
18. Romain Grosjean, 5.097
19. Lance Stroll, 5.032
20. Sergey Sirotkin, 4.800

Team mate gaps:
1. Fernando Alonso vs. Stoffel Vandoorne, 2.229
2. Daniel Ricciardo vs. Max Verstappen, 1.907
3. Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean, 1.778
4. Pierre Gasly vs. Brendon Hartley, 1.143
5. Charles Leclerc vs. Marcus Ericsson, 0.878
6. Sebastian Vettel vs. Kimi Raikkonen, 0.637
7. Nico H?lkenberg vs. Carlos Sainz, 0.509
8. Lance Stroll vs. Sergey Sirotkin, 0.232
9. Sergio Perez vs. Esteban Ocon, 0.170
10. Valtteri Bottas vs. Lewis Hamilton, 0.125

Top 5 Race Average Ratings
1. Hungary, 6.789
2. Austria, 6.750
2. Germany, 6.750
4. Australia, 6.745
5. Spain, 6.699

Lowest 5 Race Average Ratings:
1. Canada, 6.184
2. France, 6.250
3. China, 6.300
4. Monaco, 6.350
5. Great Britain, 6.526

A higher average means more drivers performed strongly, it does not rate the race as such.

As always, link to document here.


"It is becoming apparent Ericsson is not, after all, joining Ferrari Ganassi for 2019 2020."
- Chrill, 28 Sep 2018 8 Oct 2019

Penfold

#106
Good stuff.  Is there much difference in average scores if you use only those of thee and me?

Can be interesting to see how others view things, so here is Keith Collantine's (of racefans fame) version of events at the mid-season point (no scores given, just a position):

1. Lewis Hamilton - Baffling for me to understand this.
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Sebastian Vettel
4. Daniel Ricciardo
5. Valerie Bottas - Better than Leclerc... really?
6. Max Verstappen - Generous given how many awful weekends he had early on.
7. Charles (It is I) Leclerc
8. Pierre Gasly
9. Esteban Ocon
10. Nico Hulkenberg - Long way down.
11. Kevin Magnussen
12. Sergio Perez
13. Carlos Sainz
14. Kimi Raikkonen - This one is just nuts.
15. Toffee Van Door
16. Baby Stroller
17. J. R. Hartley
18. Sergey Sirotkin
19. Chrill's mate Marcus - Kind of harsh.
20. Romain Grosjean
"I like beating and punching."
- Chrill (28/09/2018)

Chrill

Quote from: Penfold on August 29, 2018, 01:16:01 AM
Good stuff.  Is there much difference in average scores if you use only those of thee and me?
Not really, since the calculated average is an actual average. If you rate someone 8, I do too, and Matt and M4A1 rate them 5, their average is likely to land over 7. This is due to us having more ratings. The ratings are not the average of our average ratings, but the actual ratings of all ratings combined.

Quote from: Penfold on August 29, 2018, 01:16:01 AM
1. Lewis Hamilton - Baffling for me to understand this.
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Sebastian Vettel
4. Daniel Ricciardo
5. Valerie Bottas - Better than Leclerc... really?
6. Max Verstappen - Generous given how many awful weekends he had early on.
7. Charles (It is I) Leclerc
8. Pierre Gasly
9. Esteban Ocon
10. Nico Hulkenberg - Long way down.
11. Kevin Magnussen
12. Sergio Perez
13. Carlos Sainz
14. Kimi Raikkonen - This one is just nuts.
15. Toffee Van Door
16. Baby Stroller
17. J. R. Hartley
18. Sergey Sirotkin
19. Chrill's mate Marcus - Kind of harsh.
20. Romain Grosjean

Some question marks arising here:
1) Lewis has not been nearly as strong as previous years. We probably rate him lower than fair, but a top 5 position is out of the question let alone P1
2) Verstappen outperforming drivers like Leclerc, Magnussen, Force India? Nah mate, Keith is drunk
3) Vandoorne better than Stroll, Sirotkin, Marky Mark and Grosjean? Nah, that ain't right.
4) Grosjean and Ericsson at the bottom? Based on what? Ericsson scored the first points of the year, and now 3 points finishes in 5 races. Sure, he has qualified worse than Leclerc but he definitely hasn't raced worse than him. Grosjean, whilst distanced by Magnussen for a long time, has been incredibly unlucky not to finish more races in the points. He definitely hasn't been the worst guy on the grid.

All in all, I think Keith is including his own personal opinion about the drivers. He never was a fan of Ericsson or Grosjean, was he, but he's been a big fan of Verstappen. Bashing Kimi is popular too, but to be fair Kimi has led something like 25 laps to Vettel's 200 laps so far this year. That is a big gap.
"It is becoming apparent Ericsson is not, after all, joining Ferrari Ganassi for 2019 2020."
- Chrill, 28 Sep 2018 8 Oct 2019

Penfold

I'm sure we're all guilty of bias (no, it's not just you with Ericsson!) but as you say Keith seems to have blinkers on when it comes to certain drivers: Hamilton who has been lacklustre on many occasions this year and Max with his catalogue of mistakes sit 1st & 6th; whereas the solid race performances of Ericsson and Kimi (who, let us not forget, has lost out when used to support Vettel) earn them only a derisory placing.  Christ, Kimi was 14 points ahead of Bottas in the Championship after Hungary and yet he's nine places below him in that list.  And then there's Hulk... how is he below Max and Valerie?  I can't make any sense of that one.
"I like beating and punching."
- Chrill (28/09/2018)

Chrill

In fairness, our two bottom picks are the two Williams drivers. Surely they are rated where they are partially based upon the performance of the car. We're both guilty of bias.
"It is becoming apparent Ericsson is not, after all, joining Ferrari Ganassi for 2019 2020."
- Chrill, 28 Sep 2018 8 Oct 2019

Penfold

Tricky to judge them without a yardstick, and I'm sure the car has been a nightmare to drive, but I still genuinely believe they've been the two worst drivers on the grid this year.  Stroll was slow against Massa last year and Sirotkin seems to be on a similar level to Lance; so has Stroll improved this year meaning both he and Sirotkin are up at Massa's standard, or would Felipe be wiping the floor with the pair of them... I'm going with the latter.  Oh yeah, I'm prepared to eat my words if Stroll can get close to Perez when the swap happens.

I see my main bias as giving Alonso juicy scores... but then he is awesome.
"I like beating and punching."
- Chrill (28/09/2018)

Chrill

Alonso is awesome. Will miss him.

In regards to Perez-Stroll, well it won't happen for Italy anyway.
"It is becoming apparent Ericsson is not, after all, joining Ferrari Ganassi for 2019 2020."
- Chrill, 28 Sep 2018 8 Oct 2019

Penfold

Hey (is for horses), it's time for Belgium:

Merc:
Hammy - 7 - Good qualifying and alright in the race, nothing more than that.
Val - 6 - Okay in race but a point off for hitting the Williams at turn one -  he gets zero bonus points for all those DRS passes.

Ferrari:
Seb - 8 - Clearly the quickest car and a good (non-DRS) move on Hammy for the lead.  Denied a nine because he didn't take pole.
Kimi - X - The final cog in Hulkenberg's chain of destruction.

Red Bull
The Pie Man - X - Cog number three.
Max - 7 - Managed to easily speed his underpowered Red Bull past the Force Indias (typically amongst the fastest cars in a straight line) because Charlie Whiting is a fucking idiot who doesn't actually watch F1 and believes that all people want to see is a constant stream of overtaking.  Then Max just drove around by himself.

Force India/Stroll:
Perez - 9 - Superb qualifying and perfect in race.  Couldn't fight with Max or Valerie because apparently that's not what F1 is about any more.
Ocon - 8 - Same as above but not quite as quick in the race.

Williams
Stroller - 5 - Okay.
Sirotkin - 6 - A tad faster than Stroll, which I suppose is some minor achievement.

Renault:
Sainz - 5 - Was he in the race?
Hulk - 0 - For such an experienced driver to make such a rookie error is amazing.

Toro Rosso:
Greasy Peril - 6 - Reasonably good for the Toro Rosso.
J.R. -  5 - More in the mediocre category.

Haas:
Big Jean - 8 - Good weekend for Haas and for Row Man.
Son of Magnus - 7 - Solid points.

McLaren:
Aslan - X - The first cog in Hulkenberg's chain of destruction.
Van Door - 4 - Slow....

Sauber:
Chrill's mate Marcus - 6 - Got a point.
'It is I' - X - Cog number two.
"I like beating and punching."
- Chrill (28/09/2018)

Penfold

Must do my scores for Monza.  Back later today (probably).  Spoiler Alert: I'm going to give Hammy a 10/10 for his efforts.
"I like beating and punching."
- Chrill (28/09/2018)

Chrill

Good idea!!

Mercedes:
Lewis Hamilton - 10/10 (Fuck this guy. P3, dominated two cars that was supposed to be faster. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant, and I hate it. He is currently much more deserving to win than Vettel)
Valtteri Bottas - 8/10 (Solid second-string to Hamilton, was key in halting Raikkonen's progress)

Ferrari:
Sebastian Vettel - 6/10 (Silly mistake saw him open room for Hamilton. Then tried to be aggressive but lost out himself. Decent recovery, but he put himself in a position to need to recover)
Kimi Raikkonen - 6/10 (Lacked the edge when needed. Couldn't build a gap to Hamilton, couldn't pass Bottas, couldn't keep his tyres alive, didn't defend desperately enough. Hamilton passed too easily)

Red Bull:
Daniel Ricciardo - 6/10 (I'm really not sure if he was in the race. Then he went kaboom. They blame clutch, not engine. I'm uncertain)
Max Verstappen - 7/10 (Inferior car, aggressive drive. Really 8/10, but deducting one for the silly clash with Bottman)

Force India:
Sergio Perez - 9/10 (Considering his poor qualifying, this was good. P7 from P14. Solid stuff)
Esteban Ocon - 8/10 (Ahead of his team mate but had a match easier journey to there, and in the end only just kept Perez at bay)

Williams:
Lance Stroll - 8/10 (Really happy to award Stroll a high score. Kept out of trouble, passed the right guys at the right time. Solid points scoring after reaching Q3!!)
Sergey Sirotkin - 7/10 (Started P12, finished P11, promoted to P10 when Grosjean got excluded. Yay points!)

Renault:
Carlos Sainz Jr - 7/10 (This car isn't fast in a straight line, but nobody told Sainz. P8 from 7th on the grid, kept himself from being lapped. Strong stuff, man)
Nico Hulkenberg - 4/10 (Started from the back and never really left the back. Enough said)

Toro Rosso:
Pierre Gasly - 5/10 (I don't know, he was shunted by Alonso or something yeah? P9 to P14, that's not good)
Brendon Hartley - X/10 (Can't get a lucky race in, can he?)

Haas:
Romain Grosjean - X/10 (I mean, his drive was good but I don't want to rate a disqualified kid)
Kevin Magnussen - 4/10 (Invisible. Like, I am positive he wasn't even in Italy during the race)

McLaren:
Fernando Alonso - X/10 (Retired too early, I can't recall how he did up until that point. Sorry)
Stoffel Vandoorne - 7/10 (Forced that McLaren past a Sauber and a Renault and a Toro Rosso. Decent, not too bad. It's still too slow)

Sauber:
Marcus Ericsson - 6/10 (Like most of his friends, invisible in the race. Touched Hartley, slightly broke his car, and never looked likely to do anything. I don't even know how he finished ahead of the Magnus)
Charles Leclerc - 7/10 (Considering the number of retirements ahead of him, not scoring a point here is bad. P11 isn't strong enough)

Definitely the Ham-man for Driver of the race.
"It is becoming apparent Ericsson is not, after all, joining Ferrari Ganassi for 2019 2020."
- Chrill, 28 Sep 2018 8 Oct 2019

Penfold

#115
As always, thumbs up for the comments!

Monza.

Merc:
Hammy - 10 - His best performance of 2018.  Lovely little move on Vettel.
Val - 8 - Not at Hammy's level but great laps to keep Kimi back.  Becoming a highly valuable no. 2 for Merc.

Ferrari:
Seb - 6 - Another first lap panic from Seb.  Multiple cars jostling for position seems to cloud his judgement.
Kimi - 8 - Pole!  Was able to keep Hammy behind in stint one, so Ferrari pitted him early for softs, a compound the team hadn't run all weekend, in the belief that these tyres would be good for a full 33 laps.  They weren't, not even close.

Red Bull
The Pie Man - 5 - I don't know how to score him.  Started from the back with all new engine bits; all new engine bits proceeded to fail after 23 laps.
Max - 7 - Good apart from hitting Bottas.

Force India/Stroll:
Perez - 8 - Great progression through the field, but should've insisted on another lap in Q1.  I know this is the team's responsibility, but if I can look at the times and think "hmm, they better send Sergio out for a second run", then why the hell can't he?
Ocon - 8 - Better qualifying than Perez, not such an impressive race (but still good!).

Williams
Stroller - 8 - I suppose I'll agree with you and award an eight.  Seems quite an unnatural act - not as bad as Morris dancing or voting Lib Dem, but strange nonetheless.
Sirotkin - 7 - The above sentences only with 'seven' replacing 'eight'.

Renault:
Sainz - 7 - More than I expected from a Renault at Monza.
Hulk - 5 - Less than I expected.

Toro Rosso:
Greasy Peril - 5 - Finished in a pretty lowly spot.  I honestly have no idea what happened to him during the race, I'm not sure he even made an appearance on C4's highlights package.
J.R. -  X - Taken out by Chrill's mate.

Haas:
Big Jean - 8 - Really strong weekend if you ignore the whole disqualification thing....
Son of Magnus - 3 - Awful.

McLaren:
Aslan - X - Car died.
Van Door - 6 - One of his better (i.e. less disappointing) showings.

Sauber:
Chrill's mate Marcus - 5 - Clipped Hartley, didn't see him at all after that.
'It is I' - 6 - Kind of unremarkable for the Ferrari man.
"I like beating and punching."
- Chrill (28/09/2018)

Penfold

It's going to be a bad score for Perez this time round.  Kind of wishing I could award him less than zero....
"I like beating and punching."
- Chrill (28/09/2018)

Chrill

I'll get back to you with ratings. Sirotkin, despite finishing last, will likely get his highest score of the year.
"It is becoming apparent Ericsson is not, after all, joining Ferrari Ganassi for 2019 2020."
- Chrill, 28 Sep 2018 8 Oct 2019

Penfold

Singapore.

Merc:
Hammy - 9 - One of his best ever qualifying laps.  No mistakes in race but too comfortable to earn a ten.
Val - 5 - Miles off in quali., even further off in the race.

Ferrari:
Seb - 7 - Fluffed qualifying; good job to nip past Max on lap one but team sacrificed track position with an early stop (which brought him out behind Perez!) thereby costing him P2.
Kimi - 6 - Not a million miles behind Seb on Saturday or Sunday.

Red Bull
The Pie Man - 6 - A poor qualifying round here kills you.
Max - 9 - Like Hammy, put in a stellar single lap on Saturday; drove around the track at high speed & without incident on Sunday.

Force India/Stroll:
Perez - 0 - What is it people say: If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Ocon - X - Unpleasant episode involving a second pink car and a wall.

Williams
Stroller - 7 - Clearly the slowest car of the weekend.  Got ahead of team-mate early on and then kept going to earn a respectable P15.
Sirotkin - 7 - Tempted to give an eight when considering his stalwart defense against Perez, but he'd dropped behind Stroll & picked up a penalty for squeezing Hartley.

Renault:
Sainz - 8 - Seems about right.
Hulk - 7 - Suffered from starting on the hypers so decent job to come tenth.

Toro Rosso:
Greasy Peril - 6 - Car was slow, he was okay.
J.R. -  5 - Car was slow, he was just about okay.

Haas:
Big Jean - 5 - Quite slow on the hypers so came out behind everyone bar Hartley after pitting.  Lack of pace then left him stuck behind Sirotkin after the Russian had pitted.
Son of Magnus - 3 - Awful.

McLaren:
Aslan - 9 - Best of the rest for the best of the best.
Van Door - 5 - Not his worst result but then Fernando managed P7, and he was eighth tenths quicker than the Door in Q1.

Sauber:
Chrill's mate Marcus - 7 - Head down and came out the other end in a solid eleventh.
'It is I' - 8 - Same as Marcus but just those crucial two places further up.
"I like beating and punching."
- Chrill (28/09/2018)

Chrill

Mercedes:
Lewis Hamilton - 9/10 (Damnit. That qualifying lap was absurd. I hate it. He's the greatest driver this season, and is cementing his place among the absolute all time great. Senna, Prost, Fangio, Schumacher, Hamilton. He fits easily)
Valtteri Bottas - 5/10 (You cannot, must not, should not, finish a minute behind your team mate. Poor. So poor. Shamefully poor)

Ferrari:
Sebastian Vettel - 7/10 (Great in the start, taking Verstappen. Then, a poor strategy left him managing his tyres and being absolutely unable to attack Verstappen. Nursed it home)
Kimi Raikkonen - 5/10 (Stuck behind Bottas all race but never looking able to challenge him. 5/10 is probably harsh, but in the end he didn't get that all-important pass he needed)

Red Bull:
Daniel Ricciardo - 6/10 (Definitely fast enough to match Verstappen, but stuck behind the Bott-train)
Max Verstappen - 9/10 (Mature to back down when Lewis had a messy moment lapping cars, finally drove like an experienced guy)

Force India:
Sergio Perez - 4/10 (Crashed Ocon, almost on purpose, then went banana bread behind Sirotkin. At least he made the race more interesting)
Esteban Ocon - X/10 (Good start, but a bad end to the start)

Williams:
Lance Stroll - 6/10 (Perhaps he was only invisible due to his team mate behaving, but this was unspectacular)
Sergey Sirotkin - 8/10 (He finished last. He gets 9 points. He shunted Hartley off the track. He gets 8 points. What? Well, you know, he fought really hard and really well on battered tyres. Impressive controlled racecraft)

Renault:
Carlos Sainz Jr - 8/10 (Good track for Renault, and he put it to good use. Still, a lap down on the at first slow moving Hamilton)
Nico Hulkenberg - 6/10 (Really should have jumped Leclerc considering the Sauber strategy, but just didn't)

Toro Rosso:
Pierre Gasly - 5/10 (Not a spectacular performance, was it? Barely saw him down there in the pack behind Sir Otkin)
Brendon Hartley - 5/10 (Like Pierre but also shunted off track at one point, just barely coming to a halt)

Haas:
Romain Grosjean - 4/10 (Had to pit crazy early and then watched Perez dance with Sir Otto for half a race)
Kevin Magnussen - 4/10 (Can't even remember him. Like, something happened right? 2 laps down? That's not fun. I do not remember)

McLaren:
Fernando Alonso - 9/10 (Fernando does what Fernando does)
Stoffel Vandoorne - 5/10 (Stoffel does what Fernando doesn't)

Sauber:
Marcus Ericsson - 6/10 (Considering a decent quali position, P11 was somewhat mediocre. Was left out on old tyres too long in the hopes of earning a Safety Car pit stop. Would easily have elevated him to best of the rest)
Charles Leclerc - 7/10 (Like Ericsson but faster)
"It is becoming apparent Ericsson is not, after all, joining Ferrari Ganassi for 2019 2020."
- Chrill, 28 Sep 2018 8 Oct 2019